The Randy Lerner thread

[Shillzz]

On the subject of the Red Bull thing.

 

Following Villa has been a fairly miserable experience in my lifetime. I'm not 100% sure what binds us so stoically to a football club, particularly one as underwhelming as AVFC, but it happens, and like the parents to an awful child, we love the club regardless. 

 

Now, if that club no longer continues to be AVFC, playing at the home of football, in the magnificent claret and blue, then there's not a cat in hell's chance that I bother to continue following it. The illusion of tradition is already running fairly thin and memories of players that I actually look up to are starting to wane. Completely selling our sole to the corporate machine and everything it stands for would undoubtedly be the end of my interest in the club.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Shillzz

[Big_John_10]

However, did he learn from this

Well no he didn't. Hence the two awful years after MON which lead to the state the club was in when Lambert came.

[villa-revolution]

 

However, did he learn from this

Well no he didn't. Hence the two awful years after MON which lead to the state the club was in when Lambert came.

 

 

A state that is now being addressed & is improving, thus confirming that, indeed yes, Randy is learning.

 

Hence his remarkable name Randy LERNER

[Amo69]

Improving. Have you seen our home record?

[Zatman]

 

 

 

 

 

Overall, I'm still grateful to Lerner.

But ultimately he's risked our premiership survival and is damaging our ability to become competitive again in the long term so he doesn't lose out.

A billionnaire causing problems for our club so he doesn't Lose out financially doesn't sit right with me.

premiership survival we wouldnt have a chance to defend without him buying club in 06

I've read this a couple of times. While I don't think we'd have done well I don't think it was certain we'd have gone down.

Before the January window when Lerner first spent we got 25 points from our first 20 league games. That's the squad DOL left with just the addition of petrov. The squad wasn't great but I don't think relegation was as certain as it's claimed.

Plus a considerably better manager, who wouldn't have been in charge if Lerner hadn't taken over (again, not a defence of Lerner)

True but I think doug would have sacked DOL. Like I said I don't think we'd have been great just don't think relegation was as certain as others.

 

 

we couldnt afford a masseuse. he wasnt going to pay DOL compensation

[villa-revolution]

Improving. Have you seen our home record?

 

Have you seen our away record?

[blandy]

Villa revolution a lot of what you said is true but I also know there were once over 3000 fans that turned up at Villa park as well as many thousands of others practically begging the guy not to employ Alex McLeish. For him to still proceed to employ such a poor manager was this biggest sign of disrespect I have ever seen an owner of a club to their fans. I am not saying he doesn’t want the club to be successful I am saying he does not care how the fans feel.

The appointment of that manager was one of the most monumental (and glaringly obvious) cock ups in the time I've been a fan (since the 70s). Whoever's idea it was, or whether it was collective, they had not only taken leave of their senses but seemed to almost willfully ignore the obvious nature of the mistake that was staring them/him in the face.

 

Anyway, I don't think it was just not caring how the fans felt - there was also misunderstanding how we felt.

I think they thought "they are grumbling just because he's a bluenose, and they're tribal like that" and they carried on blithely, in the fashion of absolute numpties. They really needed to listen to someone with the Clubs' interests at heart, and experience of football. They didn't though, and that compounded it. They seemed to be swayed as well by that letter from Fergie, without realising his record of backing up his favoured "sons" sometimes rather blindly.

 

They do care to a point what we think, but sadly and inevitably the weight they give to to it is some way down the queue. That's the case at just about every club, bar maybe the odd fan-run non-league or lower league club.

 

Whatever, it still beggars belief, even now. It's almost on a par with the sacking of Tony Barton by Ellis and a couple of years later the appointment of Billy McCeltic by the same former chairman. Oh and the manoeuvring out of Ron Saunders by Bendall (with the threat of Ellis returning being a factor in that, too).

[CrackpotForeigner]

Completely selling our sole to the corporate machine and everything it stands for would undoubtedly be the end of my interest in the club.

 

Oh, no. Not fish puns again.

[Stevo985]

Yep. In my lifetime of supporting Villa (so since the early 90s), the McLeish appointment is easily the most bizarre and worst decision I've ever seen the club make.

[TRO]

 

Villa revolution a lot of what you said is true but I also know there were once over 3000 fans that turned up at Villa park as well as many thousands of others practically begging the guy not to employ Alex McLeish. For him to still proceed to employ such a poor manager was this biggest sign of disrespect I have ever seen an owner of a club to their fans. I am not saying he doesn’t want the club to be successful I am saying he does not care how the fans feel.

The appointment of that manager was one of the most monumental (and glaringly obvious) cock ups in the time I've been a fan (since the 70s). Whoever's idea it was, or whether it was collective, they had not only taken leave of their senses but seemed to almost willfully ignore the obvious nature of the mistake that was staring them/him in the face.

 

Anyway, I don't think it was just not caring how the fans felt - there was also misunderstanding how we felt.

I think they thought "they are grumbling just because he's a bluenose, and they're tribal like that" and they carried on blithely, in the fashion of absolute numpties. They really needed to listen to someone with the Clubs' interests at heart, and experience of football. They didn't though, and that compounded it. They seemed to be swayed as well by that letter from Fergie, without realising his record of backing up his favoured "sons" sometimes rather blindly.

 

They do care to a point what we think, but sadly and inevitably the weight they give to to it is some way down the queue. That's the case at just about every club, bar maybe the odd fan-run non-league or lower league club.

 

Whatever, it still beggars belief, even now. It's almost on a par with the sacking of Tony Barton by Ellis and a couple of years later the appointment of Billy McCeltic by the same former chairman. Oh and the manoeuvring out of Ron Saunders by Bendall (with the threat of Ellis returning being a factor in that, too).

 

 

I think where the confusion came in with McLeish the board and the fans were on two completely different wave lengths.

 

After the 6-6-6 we thought all was rosey in the garden and it wasn't, we then appointed a manager who had little interest in us and had health problems.....by this time the overpaid players and over bought players needed culling and that is what Mcleish was bought in to do..... cut the wage bill and cull at the same time keep us in the division, (he kept us in),but it proved to be too difficult for him as is the case now.

 

we thought we was embarking on the " bright future" building programme, but in essence nothing was further from the truth.

 

Mcleish was appointed with little interest with what the fans felt because, he was brought in to do a job for the board...... not the fans.

 

Alex Ferguson got vexed, because he knew this and thought McLeish was sold down the river and subsequently told Martinez not to touch us with a ten foot barge pole, whether you like Fergie or not he is influencial.

 

I cringed when we signed McLeish, but I would, wouldn't I because I wanted a football team built......that was secondary to them.

Edited January 16, 2014 by TRO

[TRO]

I still say our performance in the transfer market has got us in the situation we are in today.

 

you can blame who you like for it.

 

• Managers with no Nous
• Coaches with no ability to get the best out of the players, once bought.
• Owner/CEO for inadequate funding i.e wage ceilings
• Lack of investment in the scouting network
• Scouts with no Nous

[Big_John_10]

Yep. In my lifetime of supporting Villa (so since the early 90s), the McLeish appointment is easily the most bizarre and worst decision I've ever seen the club make.

I'm struggling to think of a more bizarre one any premiership side has made.

[TRO]

 

Yep. In my lifetime of supporting Villa (so since the early 90s), the McLeish appointment is easily the most bizarre and worst decision I've ever seen the club make.

I'm struggling to think of a more bizarre one any premiership side has made.

 

 

Sunderland have a made some....Hence, why they are, where they are

Edited January 16, 2014 by TRO

[villa-revolution]

 

Yep. In my lifetime of supporting Villa (so since the early 90s), the McLeish appointment is easily the most bizarre and worst decision I've ever seen the club make.

I'm struggling to think of a more bizarre one any premiership side has made.

 

 

Would anybody on this site turn down the opportunity to manage Aston Villa?

 

Please don't get me wrong, because the McLeish appointment was bizarre & ultimately a mistake & I completely understand how many Villa fans felt insulted by it. The way I viewed it then & the way I view it now has not changed.

 

McLeish knew it was a really `special job` & an absolutely monumental challenge. He had the balls to take it on & I admire him for that. I also believe,as Blandy points out. that, given Fergie's endorsement, allied to Big 'Ecks eagerness for the special job,Randy decided to run with it despite the misgivings of the fans.

 

The reality of the situation though is, and please try to be honest here, but we, the Aston Villa fans were never ever going to allow it to be a success because we were never going to give Big 'Eck the chance to succeed at anytime ever but only the chance to fail.

 

The fans were 100% right because ultimately their reluctance to allow McLeish a proper chance to manage & evolve was always inevitably going to decide the projects  destiny.

 

Hand on heart we all know this is true.

 

Yes, Randy got it wrong. But he was a brave man to try it.

 

Would he do it again? I don't know, but it doesn't make him a bad person, just somebody willing to give someone a chance against all the odds.

[tinker]

Martinez spoke to Liverpool and didn't like what he heard, he came back to Villa to ask if we were still interested and we said no, Lambert signed a few days later.

 

Red Bull won't buy us, they would meet resistance at a level they would  not be able to cope with.

 

I would look to China for an interested party, they have the muscle to make a massive impact. We have a future King as a fan as well as the PM and our history to boot, we should be easy to sell to oversea investors.

[Zatman]

Yep. In my lifetime of supporting Villa (so since the early 90s), the McLeish appointment is easily the most bizarre and worst decision I've ever seen the club make.

 

Habib Beye and Shay Given getting big deals arent far behind

[sharkyvilla]

I still say our performance in the transfer market has got us in the situation we are in today.

 

you can blame who you like for it.

 

• Managers with no Nous
• Coaches with no ability to get the best out of the players, once bought.
• Owner/CEO for inadequate funding i.e wage ceilings
• Lack of investment in the scouting network
• Scouts with no Nous

Definitely, the money we wrote off on shit signings especially from the first 3 years is by far the biggest factor in where we are now. We have to pay for our mistakes whereas the likes of City and Chelsea can make hugely expensive cock-ups with impunity.

[Big_John_10]

Yep. In my lifetime of supporting Villa (so since the early 90s), the McLeish appointment is easily the most bizarre and worst decision I've ever seen the club make.

I'm struggling to think of a more bizarre one any premiership side has made.

Would anybody on this site turn down the opportunity to manage Aston Villa?

Please don't get me wrong, because the McLeish appointment was bizarre & ultimately a mistake & I completely understand how many Villa fans felt insulted by it. The way I viewed it then & the way I view it now has not changed.

McLeish knew it was a really `special job` & an absolutely monumental challenge. He had the balls to take it on & I admire him for that. I also believe,as Blandy points out. that, given Fergie's endorsement, allied to Big 'Ecks eagerness for the special job,Randy decided to run with it despite the misgivings of the fans.

The reality of the situation though is, and please try to be honest here, but we, the Aston Villa fans were never ever going to allow it to be a success because we were never going to give Big 'Eck the chance to succeed at anytime ever but only the chance to fail.

The fans were 100% right because ultimately their reluctance to allow McLeish a proper chance to manage & evolve was always inevitably going to decide the projects destiny.

Hand on heart we all know this is true.

Yes, Randy got it wrong. But he was a brave man to try it.

Would he do it again? I don't know, but it doesn't make him a bad person, just somebody willing to give someone a chance against all the odds.

Wow if you can come up with a defence for appointing McLeish and actually call it brave then there's nothing you won't defend.

Yep. In my lifetime of supporting Villa (so since the early 90s), the McLeish appointment is easily the most bizarre and worst decision I've ever seen the club make.

Habib Beye and Shay Given getting big deals arent far behind

Massively different.

[blandy]

I think where the confusion came in with McLeish the board and the fans were on two completely different wave lengths.

 

After the 6-6-6 we thought all was rosey in the garden and it wasn't, we then appointed a manager who had little interest in us and had health problems.....by this time the overpaid players and over bought players needed culling and that is what Mcleish was bought in to do..... cut the wage bill and cull at the same time keep us in the division, (he kept us in),but it proved to be too difficult for him as is the case now.

 

we thought we was embarking on the " bright future" building programme, but in essence nothing was further from the truth.

 

Mcleish was appointed with little interest with what the fans felt because, he was brought in to do a job for the board...... not the fans.

 

Alex Ferguson got vexed, because he knew this and thought McLeish was sold down the river and subsequently told Martinez not to touch us with a ten foot barge pole, whether you like Fergie or not he is influencial.

 

I cringed when we signed McLeish, but I would, wouldn't I because I wanted a football team built......that was secondary to them.

That makes a lot of sense. I don't know if it's right, but it has a ring of credibility to it and it's hard to argue against it.

 

 

...the McLeish appointment was bizarre & ultimately a mistake & I completely understand how many Villa fans felt insulted by it. The way I viewed it then & the way I view it now has not changed.

 

McLeish knew it was a really `special job` & an absolutely monumental challenge. He had the balls to take it on & I admire him for that. I also believe,as Blandy points out. that, given Fergie's endorsement, allied to Big 'Ecks eagerness for the special job, Randy decided to run with it despite the misgivings of the fans.

 

The reality of the situation though is, and please try to be honest here, but we, the Aston Villa fans were never ever going to allow it to be a success because we were never going to give Big 'Eck the chance to succeed at anytime ever but only the chance to fail.

 

The fans were 100% right because ultimately their reluctance to allow McLeish a proper chance to manage & evolve was always inevitably going to decide the projects  destiny.

 

Hand on heart we all know this is true.

 

Yes, Randy got it wrong. But he was a brave man to try it.

 

Would he do it again? I don't know, but it doesn't make him a bad person, just somebody willing to give someone a chance against all the odds.

I only partly agree with this. Yes, I think he was "brave" to try it, and yes he's a decent man, but the rest, I'm less sure about - I really don't think the fans are in any way responsible, not even a little bit. He did "get a chance" from us. Sure all of us were totally against his appointment, but once it happened, we did get behind him and the team. Go back to the first home game v Blackburn - he got a warm welcome before kick off. Unarguably so. Unfortunately everything we said was right.

It was and still is a big task, partly or mostly due to what you say in the first post I quoted, but he was never up to it. The type of football was unremittingly dire. With Lambert, we've had (too few) glimpses of a bright way of playing, mostly at the latter part of last season, but there was just none of that with 'Eck.

Sure the severe doubts/outright scepticism was an addiotnal factor once it started going wrong, and that's one reason why he should never have been appointed - because as we've seen and know - he wasn't ever going to get a free pass for nearly as long as Paul Lambert's had, with results and performances. I can't think of any former Villa manager or player who would have recommended the appointment to the club. He was always the wrong fit for Villa, regardless of his period at the Sty. But when you factor that in, it could never work.

But you cannot blame or involve the supporters in that decision. We didn't want him. We knew it would fail. We didn't cause or contribute to it failing. Results and performances did. It'll be the same for Lambert if he carries on losing. He'll go because of results. He'll have had more leeway, sure, but that's a bonus, not something that any manager has any right to, or any board has any right to demand or expect. Let alone if they make an appointment totally against the wishes of the fans. They seemed to know that with McLaren, then looked to panic. Total bonkers.

[Houlston]

Whether I like it or not I get mostly what has happened during Randy's tenure and the reasons for doing it except the appointment of McLeish, it is, as already stated, bizarre.