The Randy Lerner thread

[Big_John_10]

My memory is a little hazy but was any of the anti Lerner posters voicing their concerns during the MON spending era?

Did we know the wage bill was completely out of control and that he'd end up hiring houllier and Mcleish?

[leviramsey]

The wage bill was reasonably common knowledge... I remember Risso posting analyses of the financials going back to at least 2008. Most ignored it (perhaps including Lerner?).

[suttonpaul]

Still waiting for a reply to my last post John don't dodge the question.

[Richard]

My memory is a little hazy but was any of the anti Lerner posters voicing their concerns during the MON spending era?

yes some were, at least 18 months before mon left actually

[thetrees]

I don't think houllier was as bad an appointment as many make out tbh

 

Money wise it was imho. 

 

The cost of his wages, staff, players in etc, It wiped out the Milner fee.

All in hindsight.

On the face of it at the time the Houllier appointment was a well considered one. After all they were hiring a vastly experienced manager at all levels, who had won several trophies while managing an English club. Most thought it a good appointment at the time.

The fact that we got an old Frenchman looking for a last payday and the chance to have a love in with the supporters of his former club is not something that was foreseen.

So Mr .Lerner should receive pelters for hiring McLeish, but not Houllier, where he was just unlucky.

My memory is a little hazy but was any of the anti Lerner posters voicing their concerns during the MON spending era?

yes some were, at least 18 months before mon left actually

As were some of the (apparently) pro-Lerner posters

[Dodgyknees]

Lerner fails to foresee quite a lot of bad things.

[thetrees]

As do most of us

[Dodgyknees]

Most of us aren't costing a premiership team millions nor almost costing it's premiership status.

 

Most of us are not making high level management decisions, leading to massive pay outs when those decisions go wrong - even when advised otherwise.

 

Most of us do not blindly throw millions of pounds at something and then pull the rug in the middle of management changes.

 

Lerner has failed us and the team time and time again.

 

Failure after failure and an inability to foresee issues which were right in front of him and some even on here questioned.

 

YET I am expected to back his next "plan" when his previous "plans" have ended in failure and bringing us very close to being the next Leeds.

[Big_John_10]

What a strange argument to say it was ok to moan back then. You have to take into account that there's more money in football than there was back then also.

As for your second point there is no sane reason to do it, but you act like Lerner was forced to buy this club, he wasn't and he certainly won't be out of pocket when he sells it. If he wasn't prepared to spend money then he shouldn't have bought the club should he? But he did buy it, and he did tell us that we'd be ambitious and there was a plan and as soon as it started to go wrong he goes into hiding and the cost cutting begins. You may be happy that your club suffers while a billionaire makes sure he get his money back and actually considering the grief Doug always got I find it very amusing that there are actually fans out there like you.

Edited September 29, 2013 by blandy

[Big_John_10]

On the face of it at the time the Houllier appointment was a well considered one. After all they were hiring a vastly experienced manager at all levels, who had won several trophies while managing an English club. Most thought it a good appointment at the time.

Most certainly didn't and that's why you'll find the fans turned on him after only a few months in charge. It also didn't make sense to me to hire an old manager, who'd been out of management for years and in the past had serious heart problems.

It was a ridiculous decision that set the club back and cost us a fortune.

Edited September 29, 2013 by Big_John_10

[suttonpaul]

What a strange argument to say it was ok to moan back then. You have to take into account that there's more money in football than there was back then also.

As for your second point there is no sane reason to do it, but you act like Lerner was forced to buy this club, he wasn't and he certainly won't be out of pocket when he sells it. If he wasn't prepared to spend money then he shouldn't have bought the club should he? But he did buy it, and he did tell us that we'd be ambitious and there was a plan and as soon as it started to go wrong he goes into hiding and the cost cutting begins. You may be happy that your club suffers while a billionaire makes sure he get his money back and actually considering the grief Doug always got I find it very amusing that there are actually fans out there like you.

 

Strange argument because there is more money in football now? Yea where does that money come from? That's right TV! And who gets that money? That's right everyone!

 

Therefore AVFC was more financially able back then as we got higher ticket sales etc than say a Southampton now it is a very small difference. 

 

I didn't say he was forced to buy the club or act like it. I simply said he has the right to run it so it breaks even.

 

I Find it amusing you think otherwise.

[TRO]

yeah but you don't know that going into a deal like. it was one of those things that id be inclined to let slide. McLeish on the other hand...

This is true, but it has cost us a lot. It makes zero sense at all to go from one plan - continental, new ideas - to McLeish, all in less than 12 months, perplexing and in my eyes the main reason we have struggled since. Bad decisions.

I will add, the appointment of Lambert is a great decision, but lets not forget the cock up of almost having McLaren too, Lerner seems to make a lot of odd choices and decisions. If he had listened to the fans before he went for McLeish, we would be one bad decision less.

Like uncle doug listened to the fans when signing collymore.....not in favour of listening to the fans, despite the undoubted knowledge that some possess.

[Big_John_10]

What a strange argument to say it was ok to moan back then. You have to take into account that there's more money in football than there was back then also.

As for your second point there is no sane reason to do it, but you act like Lerner was forced to buy this club, he wasn't and he certainly won't be out of pocket when he sells it. If he wasn't prepared to spend money then he shouldn't have bought the club should he? But he did buy it, and he did tell us that we'd be ambitious and there was a plan and as soon as it started to go wrong he goes into hiding and the cost cutting begins. You may be happy that your club suffers while a billionaire makes sure he get his money back and actually considering the grief Doug always got I find it very amusing that there are actually fans out there like you.

Strange argument because there is more money in football now? Yea where does that money come from? That's right TV! And who gets that money? That's right everyone!

Therefore AVFC was more financially able back then as we got higher ticket sales etc than say a Southampton now it is a very small difference.

I didn't say he was forced to buy the club or act like it. I simply said he has the right to run it so it breaks even.

I Find it amusing you think otherwise.

It's different because under Lerner we've allowed teams to over take us in terms of revenue. Another reason we get worse with him.

Under Doug there was still tv money that everyone got, now there's more of it.

[suttonpaul]

 

 

What a strange argument to say it was ok to moan back then. You have to take into account that there's more money in football than there was back then also.

As for your second point there is no sane reason to do it, but you act like Lerner was forced to buy this club, he wasn't and he certainly won't be out of pocket when he sells it. If he wasn't prepared to spend money then he shouldn't have bought the club should he? But he did buy it, and he did tell us that we'd be ambitious and there was a plan and as soon as it started to go wrong he goes into hiding and the cost cutting begins. You may be happy that your club suffers while a billionaire makes sure he get his money back and actually considering the grief Doug always got I find it very amusing that there are actually fans out there like you.

Strange argument because there is more money in football now? Yea where does that money come from? That's right TV! And who gets that money? That's right everyone!

Therefore AVFC was more financially able back then as we got higher ticket sales etc than say a Southampton now it is a very small difference.

I didn't say he was forced to buy the club or act like it. I simply said he has the right to run it so it breaks even.

I Find it amusing you think otherwise.

It's different because under Lerner we've allowed teams to over take us in terms of revenue. Another reason we get worse with him.

Under Doug there was still tv money that everyone got, now there's more of it.

 

 

Yea you really don't get this do you...

 

Under Ellis a bigger percentage of ALL clubs income was ticket sales etc in comparison to TV payments  when comparing the ratio for todays PL clubs therefore what I said is a very valid point.

 

On your point of other clubs overtaking us in terms of revenue received.... please list said clubs and proof.

[Big_John_10]

I still fail to see how it was alright to moan back then but not now. Seems hypocritical to me.

In terms of revenue if you google it you'll see that in the 11/12 season we were 9th in the revenue league. Now no figures have been released for last season but can you see last season helping us improve in that table or dropping lower? I can't find figures for under Doug but I was under the impression we were around 6th/7th in terms of revenue, someone smarter than me could probably tell us.

Like I said I'd imagine that when figures are released there's a good chance we'll be lower than 9th. If I'm wrong and we were lower than this under Doug then I'll apologise but I don't think I am.

[markavfc40]

I still fail to see how it was alright to moan back then but not now. Seems hypocritical to me.

In terms of revenue if you google it you'll see that in the 11/12 season we were 9th in the revenue league.

 

 

Based on 2009/10 revenue we made the Deloitte top 20 list of richest clubs in the world coming in 20th spot. There were 6 other Prem clubs on that list - Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City and Spurs so in Prem terms we had the 7th highest revenue in 2010.

Edited September 29, 2013 by markavfc40

[suttonpaul]

 

I still fail to see how it was alright to moan back then but not now. Seems hypocritical to me.

In terms of revenue if you google it you'll see that in the 11/12 season we were 9th in the revenue league.

 

 

Based on 2009/10 revenue we made the Deloitte top 20 list of richest clubs in the world coming in 20th spot. There were 6 other Prem clubs on that list - Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City and Spurs so in Prem terms we had the 7th highest revenue in 2010.

 

 

 

Correct but that was us in the Europa League getting a bit bigger attendances at game and to be fair it was just barely above many other clubs like 5m or so difference in reply to John It wouldn't seem hypocritical if you understood the point I am making reference revenue splits. What I can say to you john on your point of whom has overtaken us one of those that moves us a place back is Man City for a start and Yes we are 9th highest in the league for revenue and I know in the season mark was speaking about we were 6th. I have seen figures for the season ending in 2012 and 8th was Everton whos revenue was 1m higher than ours. When you look at the figures it backs up my point and the teams who over took us are mega rich new owner or literally have the same revenue as us. E.g Fulham 2 places behind us only take 5m less in revenue than us it is hardly going to set us apart with who we can buy expecially when they have the pull of London.

 

Historically clubs finish roughly in the league where their revenue suggests they should ours suggests mid table so guess where we should finish..... I go back to my original point no owner should have to fund a club and clubs should only spend what they receive. If we want higher places then we need to have higher revenue now as fans aren't just going to turn up more to games and even if they did it wouldn't make a huge difference I would suggest moving the debate to two different areas the first is what to do with our savings we have made and will make in the coming summer and secondly should we sell our naming rights to the training ground/stadium etc to boost revenue other clubs have.

 

Firstly I think the TV revenue would be much better spent on lowering ticket prices like the German League and expanding the stadium so in future we have many more fans to buy shirts etc, get family's in the ground etc.

 

I also couldn't give a toss what the ground is called its always going to be Villa Park to the fans and it could provide the cash injection needed.

 

In short we need to build slow and think long term if we ever want to catch up without a Saudi Oil playboy.

Edited September 29, 2013 by suttonpaul

[darrenm]

You have to say that going by how well supported we are, and the knock-on revenues we get from that support, we should be in a fantastic financial position now.

 

The well documented removal of high earners off the books means our outgoings should be a lot less than we bring in, meaning that if Lerner is at all ambitious about AVFC, he should give Lambert quite a sizeable transfer fund at the end of the season.

 

If he wants out then I'm sure the current bargain basement transfer fees and wages will continue while the loans get paid back, and a relatively debt free club is put up for sale.

[markavfc40]

 

 

I still fail to see how it was alright to moan back then but not now. Seems hypocritical to me.

In terms of revenue if you google it you'll see that in the 11/12 season we were 9th in the revenue league.

 

 

Based on 2009/10 revenue we made the Deloitte top 20 list of richest clubs in the world coming in 20th spot. There were 6 other Prem clubs on that list - Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man City and Spurs so in Prem terms we had the 7th highest revenue in 2010.

 

 

 

Correct but that was us in the Europa League

 

 

 

We never got beyond the qualifying round. We lost to Rapid Vienna over two legs and the second leg at home attracted just over 20k. Therefore we made next to nothing out of the Europe League in 09/10. What we did have however was two long cup runs in the League Cup and FA Cup which would of course have helped revenue.

[peterms]

The well documented removal of high earners off the books means our outgoings should be a lot less than we bring in, meaning that if Lerner is at all ambitious about AVFC, he should give Lambert quite a sizeable transfer fund at the end of the season.

 

 

You can add to that Lambert's track record in getting pretty good value for money in signings.  Having done quite well in clearing up the mess he inherited (apologies, I sound like Vince Cable) and buying wisely, it's reasonable for Lambert to expect more funds next time round.  Whether that will happen is another story.