Dodgyknees Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Who says Vlaar being out made all the difference? All some people are saying is that we missed him today and we did. He's by far our best defender and probably one of our best players overall Vlaar is our best defender and that in itself is a joke. He wouldn't get into the starting 11 at two thirds of Prem clubs. The biggest joke of all though is that we go into a Premiership season with one experienced centre back and three young and inexperienced centre backs two of which had in the main shown themselves to be a liability at this level last season and not ready. Oh and your one experienced centre back has been known in the past to be prone to injury. Don't then be surprised and cry over the fact that at some point you are left with two inexperienced centre backs. Injuries are a part of football. It's why having a decent squad of players is so crucial. We don't have a decent squad though. We have a decent best 11 and beyond that we are poor. I don't blame Lambert for that though. I'd put the vast majority of the blame for that squarely with Lerner. How is it a joke? He's been very good this season and I'd say he'd get into the starting 11 of most clubs outside the top 7. Experience is overrated. I don't think there is anything wrong with going into the season with 4 CBs, it's just very unfortunate that Okore got that injury. Yep, injuries are a part of football, but there are very few squads where the quality is evenly spread out. It's ludicrous to act like Vlaar's absence shouldn't have had an impact. Most teams will struggle defensively most of the time if their best defender isn't playing. Over rated experience beat us today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Poor today. I just hope it's taken in the wider context though. Which is? As i've stated elsewhere we played the same rubbish today as we have done previously this season but without those moments of brilliance which has pulled us through in the last few games and papered over the cracks. We have been poor for most of the season and I was interested to see what a seemingly progressive manager would do with the players available to him rather than just alienating them. He got his response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 We've been unlucky though. How many teams in the Premier League have their two main centre backs injured? Going into a season with 4 centre backs is a good amount. The injury to Okore was just typical. I genuinely don't know how good Okore will be for us. None of us do.He is 21 years old and before joining us had played only 65 senior games for a club that played in a sub standard league when compared with the Prem. I am sure it would have taken him some time to settle in. He started the season on the bench remember. I would acknowledge he looks a very good prospect though. Baker and Clark however have shown that unless alongside someone with a bit of nous they are a liability. You add in the fact that Vlaar had shown himslef to be injury prone then I'd have liked to see another proven centre back at this level come in over the summer. Whichever way you cut the cake with Vlaar out we were always going to be left with two inexperienced centre backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 It is unlucky to get a season long injury to your most expensive summer signing just after the window closes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart-L7 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 We even had the Vlaar interview last week where he said the players are protected by Lambert as a manager, who tells them behind the closed door if they don't play well rather than doing it in public. For some reason I keep seeing people getting annoyed that he isn't doing it public, makes no sense to me at all, especially after seeing what happened with Di Canio this season. I'm pretty sure most of us don't want a Di Canio rant but I wish he would stop using the same old lines week in week out. Like i said I like him but it almost feels like he's blinded to what most fans are seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smetrov Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Who says Vlaar being out made all the difference? All some people are saying is that we missed him today and we did. He's by far our best defender and probably one of our best players overall Vlaar is our best defender and that in itself is a joke. He wouldn't get into the starting 11 at two thirds of Prem clubs. The biggest joke of all though is that we go into a Premiership season with one experienced centre back and three young and inexperienced centre backs two of which had in the main shown themselves to be a liability at this level last season and not ready. Oh and your one experienced centre back has been known in the past to be prone to injury. Don't then be surprised and cry over the fact that at some point you are left with two inexperienced centre backs. Injuries are a part of football. It's why having a decent squad of players is so crucial. We don't have a decent squad though. We have a decent best 11 and beyond that we are poor. I don't blame Lambert for that though. I'd put the vast majority of the blame for that squarely with Lerner. How is it a joke? He's been very good this season and I'd say he'd get into the starting 11 of most clubs outside the top 7. Experience is overrated. I don't think there is anything wrong with going into the season with 4 CBs, it's just very unfortunate that Okore got that injury. Yep, injuries are a part of football, but there are very few squads where the quality is evenly spread out. It's ludicrous to act like Vlaar's absence shouldn't have had an impact. Most teams will struggle defensively most of the time if their best defender isn't playing. Yes But:- Vlaar has a patchy injury\ healing record Clarke - was poor last season Okore & Baker - are I believe only 21 I don't believe you can go into a season with only one seasoned pro at the centre of defence (this will be the second season we have tried) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 It is unlucky to get a season long injury to your most expensive summer signing just after the window closes. Kozak wasn't injured was he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I find it completely and utterly bizarre how often there are calls for him to go on here. Agreed. The frightening (and positive) thing about performances like today is that we are still (results wise/table position) showing massive improvements. If he could actually seek out decent players who can improve the team straight away, we would probably be top of the league. Performances will catch up and balance out the results. Results have been ok overall, table is okay. Performances have been shocking since August IMO. Tell me a game when we have played well? Second half at WBA is about it and we could have been out the game first half and even early on in the second. Results have overshadowed the performances. Man Utd next, then Stoke away, we are 6 points of relegation and I think we are pretty fortunate to be that far away from trouble. Tbh, I think given the last few years the table is more than ok. We are pretty steady in mid-table. We havent been able to say that since MON left. The performances are no worse than any tripe Ive seen dished up in at least the last 4 or so years and despite this we still seem to be improving results wise. Whatever way you look at that, that's positive. Now, to move onto the next level, performances will have to improve, but we need the players for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 I find it completely and utterly bizarre how often there are calls for him to go on here. But in turn, you were one last year. Maybe some people want more evidence. He made mistakes today but they were forced on him by injury, the lack of a squad is not his fault as it is down to those cost cutting at the top. But at the same time people can certainltly be in the opinion he could do more, as you and a few others felt last year. As it was your opinion then, it is theirs now, like you their opinion might change. I'm not picking at you either, I'm a Lambert in guy. And I've already been through this over a dozen **** times - I wanted him out because we were performing absolutely dreadfully, getting dreadful results and looking like dead certs for relegation. People moan about how bad we supposedly are now but we're still far better than we were back then. Throw in the defeats to Bradford and Millwall and that's why I wanted him out at the time. But even then, I admitted weeks later that I overreacted a little bit and I was clearly wrong about Lambert being unable to stop the slide. It's a completely different situation now though. We're an inconsistent midtable team and have despite the result today have made huge improvements results wise compared to most of last seaosn. That is why I find the calls for him to go now bizarre. I really wish people would bear the contexts in mind before blurting out with the tired "YOU WANTED HIM OUT AS WELL" remark. If we see a repeat of what happened last season and I ask for patience then by all means bring that up but at the moment it's not relevant. If he left the club tomorrow would I be upset? Not at all. You wouldn't be upset that we'd have to start all over again and throw away the relative stability we've had recently? stability at what cost and what objective? Stability is great if what you have is doing OK. Who knows what the future will bring but as with last season it aint very good, and even the most blinkered fan of Lambert would have difficulty to provide evidence to counter that And we are doing ok, unless you think we should be competing for the top 6 or something? Over rated experience beat us today. And they're also still in the relegation zone while we're 6 points clear in 10th. Look at the bigger picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 It is unlucky to get a season long injury to your most expensive summer signing just after the window closes. Kozak wasn't injured was he? Kozak was injured with a toe problem apparently but I was talking about Okore obviously. He and Kozak were both said to cost £4.5m and it is pretty unlucky that Okore has picked up a season long injury because we could use him at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Mantis if you think things are OK then you have a different view on what is good / acceptable football to me (and i suspect a lot of others) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mart-L7 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Serious question When we loose - and we are all hurting, the team we devote hours and pounds to has just been beaten. What would you like the manager to say to make you feel better ? - Not just Lambert ....any manager of Aston Villa ? I want a bit of honesty. Maybe like the big mick quote "we got dicked by 6" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cizzler Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Massive mistake not getting Martinez when he was available. The football Lambert serves up hurts my eyes and he obviously can't man-manage the players - looks like if you argue with him, you are ostracised. Lowton's continued omission is pathetic and damaging our mediocre season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Mantis if you think things are OK then you have a different view on what is good / acceptable football to me (and i suspect a lot of others) The way for us to improve is to spend more money on the playing squad, not to try a 4th manager in 5 years. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Poor today. I just hope it's taken in the wider context though. Which is? Currently steady mid-table and a far cry from the relegation battle of last season at the moment. Mantis if you think things are OK then you have a different view on what is good / acceptable football to me (and i suspect a lot of others) We're mid-table after a season of almost being relegated. Woe is us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Massive mistake not getting Martinez when he was available. The football Lambert serves up hurts my eyes and he obviously can't man-manage the players - looks like if you argue with him, you are ostracised. Lowton's continued omission is pathetic and damaging our mediocre season. He wasn't interested. Hardly a mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted December 8, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted December 8, 2013 Massive mistake not getting Martinez when he was available. The football Lambert serves up hurts my eyes and he obviously can't man-manage the players - looks like if you argue with him, you are ostracised. Lowton's continued omission is pathetic and damaging our mediocre season. Think he rejected us. We didn't reject him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 If he left the club tomorrow would I be upset? Not at all. You wouldn't be upset that we'd have to start all over again and throw away the relative stability we've had recently? That stability as we've seen today is very premature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted December 8, 2013 Share Posted December 8, 2013 Most managers have a system they try and build on. To me Lambert isn't sure what he wants. I presume he bought Bacuna to play on the wing, which is why he was given the number 7 shirt but hes persisted with him at RB and we aren't play a system with wingers. Our two most expensive signings this season and last are Benteke and Kozak and they are both in competition for the same role. We have 4 CBs and one of our main formations is 3-5-2 so that seems strange to not have more if he planned to use this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted December 8, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted December 8, 2013 (edited) Bad day at the office. Too many players weren't at the races. Yes, the forced changes didn't help and I agree with those who say we don't look as though we can create chances when we actually see more of the ball. A creative midfielder is a must - and I think someone will arrive in Jan. Fulham pen was soft and we should have had one but no complains with the defeat as we deserved nothing from the game. We also lack a bit of height and dig in the middle of the park. Anyway, still top half of the table and as long as that remains the case this season I'll be delighted. HH... do you know why Lowton isn't getting picked at the minute? It seemed a strange choice from Lambert today to play Herd as CB when he could have played Lowton - Baker - Clark - Bacuna The back four today just seemed unbalanced. Edited December 8, 2013 by PieFacE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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