TRO Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) Despite my full support for a better brand of football and I support all the arguments that leads to wishing to see expansive football, right now I find it equally difficult to be critical of a manager that is producing some of our results. having had a bit of time to digest the latest win, it appears a bit more credible than I first thought....for starters it has given credence to the away win at the Emirates and has suggested it was NO fluke. To win in the chronological way that we did 0-1,1-1,1-2,2-2,2-3 suggests to be that there was a little bit more control of the game than we give them credit for even if that control was in terms of our " will to win" or our " footballing behaviour" ...I was particularly pleased to see the " William Wallace" style approach from Delph, who I have a suspicion could eventually be a real diamond for us...He has that Andy Gray/Alex Cropley attitude about him. I don't want to dismiss those posts like Risso's who calls form a better standard of football, because I think he has a case....but equally the manager deserves a bit of credit for achieving some of the results he has. If its genuinely " work-in- progress" (and not papering over the cracks)then I think its only fair and proper to support him and let him get on with it. ps ...off to Fulham tomorrow...rare away game for me....got to get some gargling done this afternoon in readiness for my vocal chords. lol Edited December 7, 2013 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 So, VillaCas, who would you hire instead of Lambert since you want him to get his P45? You do VillaCas an injustice, sir. Ulver is the P45-waving loon. Probably fainted at the very thought of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) Personally, I'll be looking to see how our Pass Completion % progresses as the season goes on. This is a real killer for us. We're currently second worst behind Crystal Palace in that regard at 74.1%. This a key thing that can be improved on regardless of what type of style (possession / counter attacking) we employ. And obviously passing to a team-mate helps with possession. Edited December 7, 2013 by Ghost 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) So, VillaCas, who would you hire instead of Lambert since you want him to get his P45? Yes, that was for me not VillaCas Ah, that old chesnut. Isn't that what our very well paid board are paid to do ? Granted up til now they've shown they've got the collective brains of a wet fart in this department, but it is their JOB not mine. There's an entire world out there with god knows how many football managers in it. It can't be hard to find one that can get a side playing attractive winning football And lets be clear, I said if the football doesn't improve he should get his P45. I'm not holding my breath that it will obviously as there have been very few signs that he has the capability or nous. But you never know. But if he doesn't the crowds at VP will be that low come May, i'm almost certain even Faulkner and Randy will have the brains between them to see it's not going down well with the paying public. Not that pissing us off has ever bothered them up til now of course. Edited December 7, 2013 by Ulver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 So we could come 8th (which is mid table) and you'd want him gone? Completely wacko logic. It's a results business. The higher we come, the more chance we have of attracting better players. Lambert clearly wanted a no10 (which would make our style of football better) but he couldn't get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 The burning question for me is...is the present tactics/style meant to be permanent or temporary. Winning has to remain the main criteria. Q are we progressing to add flair and expansion to a winning formula....or are we to throw caution to the wind and go with whatever gets us a win at any cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 So we could come 8th (which is mid table) and you'd want him gone? Completely wacko logic. It's a results business. The higher we come, the more chance we have of attracting better players. Lambert clearly wanted a no10 (which would make our style of football better) but he couldn't get one. few points on the above 1. i want to enjoy watching the team. if we finish 8th but the football remains as dire as it is now yes i will be questioning his role as manager. and the empty seats will make the board question it too 2. we wont be buying bigger names, i think that's already been established. the only big transfers involving better players we'll be doing from here on will be selling not buying. eg Benteke out for a huge fee, a much lesser player (eg Kozak) in on a much lower fee and Randy pocketing the rest 3. if he'd have really wanted a creative player for say 10m, then he wouldn't have spunked 7m on a striker. he'd have kept that 7m in the bank surely ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Lambert chose to buy 16 players rather than 5 This does not do justice to the situation. I do not think there was a choice to be made in regards to the quantity of players brought in. Lambert inherited a poor team and a weak squad which was evident by the failure and struggle of the previous season. The culture of the club needed to change. The existing players had no desire to move the club forward and were draining the club financially and emotionally. Compounded with the fact Lambert was under instructions to reduce the wage bill in the process, it was/is a difficult task. The mass revamp needed to happen whether it was by Lambert or another manager. Interestingly what has happened to the players who have left the club during this period? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruff Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 So we could come 8th (which is mid table) and you'd want him gone? Completely wacko logic. It's a results business. The higher we come, the more chance we have of attracting better players. Lambert clearly wanted a no10 (which would make our style of football better) but he couldn't get one. Why did people want McLeish gone then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Lambert chose to buy 16 players rather than 5 This does not do justice to the situation. I do not think there was a choice to be made in regards to the quantity of players brought in. Lambert inherited a poor team and a weak squad which was evident by the failure and struggle of the previous season. The culture of the club needed to change. The existing players had no desire to move the club forward and were draining the club financially and emotionally. Compounded with the fact Lambert was under instructions to reduce the wage bill in the process, it was/is a difficult task. The mass revamp needed to happen whether it was by Lambert or another manager. Interestingly what has happened to the players who have left the club during this period? To be fair, he inherited a squad with experience that had basically finished up not far off where his own side did the season after. it wasn't a GREAT squad by any means but it was one that should easily have been mid table given the players in it. the fact it wasn't was down to a mixture of the then manager and the entire gloom that his appointment brought upon the club and everyone involved with it. Lambert decided on wholesale changes rather than subtle tweaks. it didn't make us look a great deal better or end up with us finishing a whole lot higher either. In fact his gamble nearly got us in a right old mess. Thankfully we stayed up and lived to fight another day. Which is hardly something to be shouting from the roof tops about at a club like ours (IMHO) There seems to be some weird belief that EVERY player if given time will develop into a much better one, same with managers. it's simply not the case. SOME do, SOME don't, SOME get worse. Fergir didn't become a great manager just because Man Utd stuck with him, he WAS a great manager regardless. McLeish wouldn't have become a great manager if we'd stuck with him and his turgid football, will Lambert?. None of us know. I want to see some signs that make me believe he has something within him other than grit and graft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 So we could come 8th (which is mid table) and you'd want him gone? Completely wacko logic. It's a results business. The higher we come, the more chance we have of attracting better players. Lambert clearly wanted a no10 (which would make our style of football better) but he couldn't get one. Why did people want McLeish gone then? Ah, yes. But Lambert has good intentions don't ya know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 So we could come 8th (which is mid table) and you'd want him gone? Completely wacko logic. Back to this, don't forget we came 9th under Houllier and MANY wanted him out before he walked (or was pushed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 So we could come 8th (which is mid table) and you'd want him gone? Completely wacko logic. It's a results business. The higher we come, the more chance we have of attracting better players. Lambert clearly wanted a no10 (which would make our style of football better) but he couldn't get one. Why did people want McLeish gone then? What? That is no way comparable and you know that. We were in a relegation battle for that whole season and scraped safety with a minute number of games to go. We don't look like being in a relegation battle this year and the original assertion was 'even if we're mid table then I want him sacked'. Regarding Houllier, we were in a relegation battle for much of the season and 2 wins at the back end don't hide that. Also Houllier disrespected the fans on more than one occasion. We finally have something in place worth building and people would get rid of that so nonchalantly. It's baffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Won't be an issue anyway because if we continue playing the type of football we play now we won't be anywhere near 8th come the end of the season. Either we start playing a more controlled style of football or we will start slipping in the table, i have no doubts about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Yet we're playing this type of football and climbing up the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Yet we're playing this type of football and climbing up the table. You honestly think this will last? If so you might wan't to cut down on whatever it is your smoking in that pipe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) I couldn't possibly say either way (like you are). But we've played a good amount of games and we're moving up the table. I'm taking it game by game with regards to results and long term for the progress we're clearly making. If you remember, it was Ulver who mentioned the end of the season first. People were just giving their opinion about his (ridiculous IMO) statement. Edited December 7, 2013 by StefanAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) Its so hard to criticise a 3 goal away win at Southampton and coming back to lead at all times. and so easy to criticise a non scoring home draw with Sunderland with us having less of the chances. Thats our problem right now.... I guess we are just scrapping for results/points now, rather than leaving it until the end of the season. Edited December 7, 2013 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 It's hard to argue with 5 games unbeaten with our last result being a first home defeat for a top 8 side. But people still do 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_c Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Its so hard to criticise a 3 goal away win at Southampton and coming back to lead at all times. and so easy to criticise a non scoring home draw with Sunderland with us having less of the chances. Thats our problem right now.... I guess we are just scrapping for results/points now, rather than leaving it until the end of the season. Against Sunderland we had 13 shots off target, 4 on. Sunderland had 7 off, 1 on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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