Zatman Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 or is it because we have an experienced defender who is organising from corners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 29, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted November 29, 2013 (edited) He was very poor every time he played last season - that's probably why he isn't even back-up. I still believe we would've won that Bradford tie had Guzan been in goal. I don't think it would have made a slight bit of difference. He wasn't to blame for any of the goals Don't really know how you can say he wasn't to blame for any of the goals. I can't remember them all exactly from memory but he was stuck to his line all the time and as villan_007 said he was also very flappy. We got murdered from corners (did they actually score any that weren't directly or indirectly from corners?) and I don't think it's a coincidence that since Guzan has been in goal we've been conceding less from corners. Well, you could argue that Guzan would have organised the defence better and we'd have defended the corners better, I'd accept that. But that's very subjective and a huge "what if" If you're claiming that Given could have come and claimed any of the corners they scored from I'd strongly disagree. Guzan wouldn't have been claiming any of those corners either. Listen, I love GUzan, and I don't rate Given. But he's harshly scapegoated for that Bradford game. he really didn't do anything wrong. We conceded from a combination of good set pieces and poor defending. Remember we were awful all season at defending corners, with or without Guzan in goal. And as for "being Flappy" as someone else said, he flapped at nothing over 2 legs. That's just making stuff up. Edited November 29, 2013 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 (edited) Guzan is a lot better at dealing with corners so how do we know he wouldn't have tipped the balance in our favour? He's quite a lot bigger and stronger than Given. I'm not saying Given was solely to blame for the Bradford debacle because everyone played shited, but if I could go back in time and replace one player with another it would be Given with Guzan without a doubt. Ironic really when you consider that Guzan almost lost us that Carling Cup semi-final against Blackburn a few years ago but he's improved immensely since then and Given has got worse since he joined us. or is it because we have an experienced defender who is organising from corners? What, Vlaar? Edited November 29, 2013 by Mantis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 29, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted November 29, 2013 Guzan is a lot better at dealing with corners so how do we know he wouldn't have tipped the balance in our favour? He's quite a lot bigger and stronger than Given. We don't know, of course. That's impossible. All I'm saying is for the goals, imo, Guzan wouldn't have done anything different. Ironically, I think the first goal is the only one Guzan might have done better on, and that was the one that wasn't directly from a cross. But that's a big if. It would have taken an excellent save. I'm actually of the opinion that Given dealt with the stuff he could be expected to deal with quite well in those games. Put it this way, I think if Guzan had played and done exactly the same as Given, as in literally everything identical, people wouldn't be batting an eyelid at his performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I dunno, I definitely would've pointed it out. Everyone loves Guzan but I don't think people view him as immune from criticism. The key thing here is that I don't think Guzan would've done the same things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 29, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted November 29, 2013 Guzan's not immune from criticism, that's the opposite of my point. My point is Given attracts too much criticism. I think people are seeing bad things he did in that game just because he's Given (and Vt has a long history of doing this with keepers) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Why would people on here unfairly target Given just for being Given? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 like some people are negative towards for Hodgson for being Hodgson or McLeish for being McLeish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 like some people are negative towards for Hodgson for being Hodgson or McLeish for being McLeish Have to say I haven't seen any of those on VT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 29, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted November 29, 2013 (edited) Why would people on here unfairly target Given just for being Given? Because people have decided he's crap and so will unfairly blame him for stuff that isn't his fault (not necessarily you) We have history. It happened with Carson to an unreal extent. Now Carson was shit, don't get me wrong. But he got blamed for literally (and I do mean literally) every goal we conceded in the second half of his season. If you believed VT we'd have kept a clean sheet in every game had we had a competent keeper. Same thing happened with Vlaar last year. Now it's obviously not that bad, but I do think that Given is getting undeserved flak for that Bradford game. I genuinely don't think he's to blame for any of the goals. Edited November 29, 2013 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 I blame Carson for the signing of Harewood, still do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted November 29, 2013 Moderator Share Posted November 29, 2013 He should probably change that Twitter name You're mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pez1974 Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Don't get the issue with loaning out our reserves keepers. We would be able to recall them easily enough, but what would you prefer if we get injuries - someone who has only saved a few shots in training or someone who has played a couple of games, albeit at a lower level recently? Also, even if they are only paying £10k a week towards his wages, that's still £50k less we have to pay him - better than a kick in the bollocks. Finally, if he does well, perhaps someone will come in during January to buy a keeper who has recently shown what he can still do. Makes sense to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 Why would people on here unfairly target Given just for being Given? Because people have decided he's crap and so will unfairly blame him for stuff that isn't his fault (not necessarily you) We have history. It happened with Carson to an unreal extent. Now Carson was shit, don't get me wrong. But he got blamed for literally (and I do mean literally) every goal we conceded in the second half of his season. If you believed VT we'd have kept a clean sheet in every game had we had a competent keeper. Same thing happened with Vlaar last year. Now it's obviously not that bad, but I do think that Given is getting undeserved flak for that Bradford game. I genuinely don't think he's to blame for any of the goals. Agreed Given is not a bad keeper at all in my opinion. I don't think Lambert has anything against the bomb squad at all he's just trying to build a squad on a fixed wage bill. He'd like these players to leave and has pretty much said to them you are never going to be involved at any level with this club so you can either end your careers here or try to find a deal elsewhere. It's pretty simple and reasonable given our situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 29, 2013 Share Posted November 29, 2013 he's shit, reason enough for me I cannot believe you are serious? Yep 100% serious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan4Life Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 Swansea apparrently want him but only on loan in Jan http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/swansea-city-set-make-loan-6400095 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 think lazy journalism as Laudrup said he would sign a keeper, doubt they could pay his salary but will probably get game time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rovers13 Posted December 13, 2013 Share Posted December 13, 2013 His distribution wouldn't fit with Swansea's philosophy at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 Why would people on here unfairly target Given just for being Given? Because people have decided he's crap and so will unfairly blame him for stuff that isn't his fault (not necessarily you) We have history. It happened with Carson to an unreal extent. Now Carson was shit, don't get me wrong. But he got blamed for literally (and I do mean literally) every goal we conceded in the second half of his season. If you believed VT we'd have kept a clean sheet in every game had we had a competent keeper. Same thing happened with Vlaar last year. Now it's obviously not that bad, but I do think that Given is getting undeserved flak for that Bradford game. I genuinely don't think he's to blame for any of the goals. I've always thought he was shite...even when people used to toss off to him years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 14, 2013 Share Posted December 14, 2013 His distribution wouldn't fit with Swansea's philosophy at all. true but i dont think Tremmel is as good on the ball either compared to Vorm. think he be just short term and is probably better than Tremmel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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