TrentVilla Posted December 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2012 http://www1.skysport...rce=twitterfeed Just the type of physical destructive presence we need in our midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 The board should know much the club is spending, how much the club is making and what the future looks like regarding both those things. They failed to keep this under control under MoN. there's absolutely no chance that the board, o'neill or anyone else could have known that almost all o'neill's signings would leave the club for free Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Raoul Loe is a bit of strange link. Osasuna were bottom last I checked and he hasnt played most fo their games, if true id hope he proves my scepticism wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2012 there's absolutely no chance that the board, o'neill or anyone else could have known that almost all o'neill's signings would leave the club for free I fail to see how that is relevant, it was the wage bill that was the issue and that was unsustainable that caused the problem, not the money spent on players that went on to leave for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I fail to see how that is relevant, it was the wage bill that was the issue and that was unsustainable that caused the problem, not the money spent on players that went on to leave for free. it's very relevant, because factored into every signing at boardroom level is surely potential resale value. it's rare that a manager would sign 23 players and have 16 or so of them leave for absolutely nothing. there was zero money brought back from them leaving. even £2m from each player sale would've made our finances a LOT healthier and likely not seen the massive cuts. One £2m player sale gets you just under £40k a week for a year for wages. The wage bill was unsustainable because there was no money coming in from player sales despite so many leaving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2012 it's very relevant, because factored into every signing at boardroom level is surely potential resale value. it's rare that a manager would sign 23 players and have 16 or so of them leave for absolutely nothing. there was zero money brought back from them leaving. even £2m from each player sale would've made our finances a LOT healthier and likely not seen the massive cuts. One £2m player sale gets you just under £40k a week for a year for wages. The wage bill was unsustainable because there was no money coming in from player sales despite so many leaving No sorry that is nonsense. If you are depending upon money coming in from player sales in order to finance your wage bill the wage bill isn't sustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 No sorry that is nonsense. If you are depending upon money coming in from player sales in order to finance your wage bill the wage bill isn't sustainable. it's hardly nonsense. you buy an asset for big money, you assume you'll be able to get even 20% it's cost when selling it on, unless the player is in their 30s when you sign them. to say that it's not factored in is absolutely ridiculous. where else would you get a manager spending as much as o'neill did and then, 4 players aside, not getting a shiny penny for any of them? in signing someone, i'd be amazed if there's no discussion over potential sell on value both in terms of at best, and at worst, and i'm positive there'd be no factoring in the completely unique situation we found ourselves in where we didn't get any money in. player sales are a big part of club finances, so to say that they wouldn't be taken into consideration when drawing up sustainability plans is complete and utter garbage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2012 We will have to agree to disagree, in my view a wage bill is never going to be sustainable when you need to to factor in player sales in order to achieve it. That is the very definition of unsustainable. I'm am not saying that clubs do not expect to get something back on the value of players they sign, obviously in most cases they would hope to do so. However players are assets and so are marked down in accounts as depreciating assets. It is though pointless us debating this one as we will never agree on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymond Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 We will have to agree to disagree, in my view a wage bill is never going to be sustainable when you need to to factor in player sales in order to achieve it. That is the very definition of unsustainable. I'm am not saying that clubs do not expect to get something back on the value of players they sign, obviously in most cases they would hope to do so. However players are assets and so are marked down in accounts as depreciating assets. It is though pointless us debating this one as we will never agree on it. Plenty of teams around the world do use this approach. Now most of the time they are in lower European leagues or Brazil, but saying it is unsustainable would be incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 11, 2012 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2012 Plenty of teams around the world do use this approach. Now most of the time they are in lower European leagues or Brazil, but saying it is unsustainable would be incorrect. No it wouldn't. If you build a wage bill to such a level that the only way you can support it is selling players that is unsustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 No it wouldn't. If you build a wage bill to such a level that the only way you can support it is selling players that is unsustainable. id only agree this was the case if you were planning on supporting it by selling players for profit. that clearly isn't what im talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Players we signed and left on frees Harewood 4.5million Beye 3million NRC 8.5million Sidwell 6million Cuellar 7.8million Friedel 2million Luke young 6million Heskey 3.5million Potential next window freebies Warnock 7.5 million Makoun 5milion Hutton 4million Throw in the wages of that lot, (beye in particular 40k a week and 8 appearances in 3 years) its pretty obvious we are a shambles financialy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8pints Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Players we signed and left on frees Harewood 4.5million Beye 3million NRC 8.5million Sidwell 6million Cuellar 7.8million Friedel 2million Luke young 6million Heskey 3.5million And Guzan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't see how we'd continue to be a strong team by relying on sales to pay part of the wage bill. It might have slowed down our decline a bit but ultimately I think we would have still dropped. We were just not in a position to continue trying to be a competitive team thanks to the position Lerner allowed the wage bill to get to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimzk5 Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 I don't see how we'd continue to be a strong team by relying on sales to pay part of the wage bill. It might have slowed down our decline a bit but ultimately I think we would have still dropped. We were just not in a position to continue trying to be a competitive team thanks to the position Lerner allowed the wage bill to get to. Bit of both. That list cost a collective 45million with the potential next lot of freebies, and tjats before the players we also signed and sold at a loss (routledge 1.25milion sold for half that), is say if we recouped half our outlay on that lot we wouldnt have seen such drastic cost cuttings,all ifs and buts though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Players we signed and left on frees Harewood 4.5million Beye 3million NRC 8.5million Sidwell 6million Cuellar 7.8million Friedel 2million Luke young 6million Heskey 3.5million ultimately, mon's signings amount to the following: Petrov £6.5m - still at club, but £0 will be recouped Agathe £0 - £0 recouped Sutton £0 - £0 recouped Carew Swap - £0 recouped Young £9.5m - £16m recouped Maloney £1.25m - £0 recouped Reo Coker £8.6m - £0 recouped Harewood £4.5m - £0 recouped Knight £4.5m - £3.5m recouped Salifou £250k - £0 recouped Routledge £1.25m - £600k recouped Davies £10m - £2.5m recouped Sidwell £5.5m - £0 recouped Friedel £2.5m - £0 recouped Guzan £2m - Still at club, technically though he left and £0 was recouped Shorey £5m - £0 recouped L Young £5m - £0 recouped Cuellar £7.8m - £0 recouped Milner £12m - £16m recouped Heskey £3.5m - £0 recouped Downing £12m - £18m recouped Delph £8m - still at club Beye £3m - £0 recouped Warnock £8m - still at club, likely £0 recouped Collins £5.5m - recouped £2.5m Dunne £5m - still at club, likely £0 recouped 26 players signed for approx £135m 14 left for free (loss of £54.9m on purchase price) 7 left for fees (profit of about £4.25m on purchase price) 5 still at club, 3 likely to leave for £0 that's a massive, massive, massive financial hit that would've run the club for a couple of years at least 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Players we signed and left on frees Harewood 4.5million Beye 3million NRC 8.5million Sidwell 6million Cuellar 7.8million Friedel 2million Luke young 6million Heskey 3.5million Potential next window freebies Warnock 7.5 million Makoun 5milion Hutton 4million Throw in the wages of that lot, (beye in particular 40k a week and 8 appearances in 3 years) its pretty obvious we are a shambles financialy we not get a small fee for Luke Young? add Dunne to list of frees going in summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 ultimately, mon's signings amount to the following: Petrov £6.5m - still at club, but £0 will be recouped Agathe £0 - £0 recouped Sutton £0 - £0 recouped Carew Swap - £0 recouped Young £9.5m - £16m recouped Maloney £1.25m - £0 recouped Reo Coker £8.6m - £0 recouped Harewood £4.5m - £0 recouped Knight £4.5m - £3.5m recouped Salifou £250k - £0 recouped Routledge £1.25m - £600k recouped Davies £10m - £2.5m recouped Sidwell £5.5m - £0 recouped Friedel £2.5m - £0 recouped Guzan £2m - Still at club, technically though he left and £0 was recouped Shorey £5m - £0 recouped L Young £5m - £0 recouped Cuellar £7.8m - £0 recouped Milner £12m - £16m recouped Heskey £3.5m - £0 recouped Downing £12m - £18m recouped Delph £8m - still at club Beye £3m - £0 recouped Warnock £8m - still at club, likely £0 recouped Collins £5.5m - recouped £2.5m Dunne £5m - still at club, likely £0 recouped 26 players signed for approx £135m 14 left for free (loss of £54.9m on purchase price) 7 left for fees (profit of about £4.25m on purchase price) 5 still at club, 3 likely to leave for £0 that's a massive, massive, massive financial hit that would've run the club for a couple of years at least Thanks for taking the time to do that. Absolutely horrendous. It's a wonder Lerner hasn't topped himself after that, yet he is still giving our managers money to spend. It puts things in a completely different light for me concerning Lerner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 Thanks for taking the time to do that. Absolutely horrendous. It's a wonder Lerner hasn't topped himself after that, yet he is still giving our managers money to spend. It puts things in a completely different light for me concerning Lerner. the figures in that post are why i have no time for anyone who says lerner puts no money into the club, or says that the milner/young/downing money wasn't put back into the team. of course it was... ten times over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted December 11, 2012 Share Posted December 11, 2012 There's no defending that transfer policy. At least Lambert has a clear plan in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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