Ashley Westwood

[Stevo985]

Westwood lost his man against Liverpool for the Henderson goal , thats why Delph is important as he can cover the ground well.The problem is when there is 2 of them against 3 they get overrun and leave defence exposed.

Whilst he did get beaten for that Liverpool goal, it was a superb ball from Coutinho.

 

I'm not making excuses, better tracking from Westwood would have cut it out regardless. But I would say that a slightly worse ball from Coutinho and he WOULD have cut it out.

 

Still a mistake, but it was compounded by the excellent pass.

[Woodytom]

What I saw on Monday was pretty much what I have seen from Westwood all season (bar the last few games where to his credit, he has been effective).

 

Misplaced passes, poor set-pieces, no steel - not really anything. Posing the question - What does he bring to the team?

 

Just before the 3rd goal he had the ball in the centre - Lowton to the right in acres of space. Very simple ball needed. What does he do? Attempts to spray the ball 60 yard to the left, punting it hopelessly out of play. They retrieve possession and score. Now it would be unfair to blame Westwood for the goal because a lot happened in between, but where people say Westwoods good things go unnoticed (due to his style) - I think a lot of his bad things do as well. He has a relatively high passing percentage. But how much of it is effective? 

 

Its all rather pointless having a player who keeps the ball moving tidily if the people he is passing to are useless. Now again, thats not Westwoods fault. But my point is we need players who are effective - not players who could be effective with the right players around him. He isnt there for his tackling (clearly), he isnt there for his creativity and goals (clearly), so for me he isnt vital at this stage. If he is a player that keeps the ball moving then hes the final piece to the jigsaw - a jigsaw overwhelmingly incomplete at the minute.

[Rob182]

He was better second half when we had the extra body in midfield. He's been our most consistent midfield player by a mile this season.

and where are we in the league

that sounds like who is the worst "fred west" or "jack the ripper".

This argument is always pointless.

So because we are where we are in the league, our better players aren't very good or aren't worthy of praise? Is that what is being insinuated?

If so, would it sound like the worst "fred west" or "jack the ripper" when describing Benteke or Guzan as our better players this year?

[Woodytom]

 

 

He was better second half when we had the extra body in midfield. He's been our most consistent midfield player by a mile this season.

and where are we in the league

that sounds like who is the worst "fred west" or "jack the ripper".

This argument is always pointless.

So because we are where we are in the league, our better players aren't very good or aren't worthy of praise? Is that what is being insinuated?

If so, would it sound like the worst "fred west" or "jack the ripper" when describing Benteke or Guzan as our better players this year?

 

 

 

While I agree with your point Rob, Guzan and Benteke have been undoubtedly good performers this year. Undoubtedly.

 

Add to that Weimann.

 

If you were then to add, Westwood, Vlaar (two players highly praised at times on this site) that would pretty much be the spine of the team performing well. Thats simply not true - and is supported by our league position.

 

They may have been better than others (although I actually think Bakers been better than Vlaar), but they havent been consistently good. No way.

[villan_007]

 

 

 

He was better second half when we had the extra body in midfield. He's been our most consistent midfield player by a mile this season.

and where are we in the league

that sounds like who is the worst "fred west" or "jack the ripper".

This argument is always pointless.

So because we are where we are in the league, our better players aren't very good or aren't worthy of praise? Is that what is being insinuated?

If so, would it sound like the worst "fred west" or "jack the ripper" when describing Benteke or Guzan as our better players this year?

 

 

 

While I agree with your point Rob, Guzan and Benteke have been undoubtedly good performers this year. Undoubtedly.

 

Add to that Weimann.

 

If you were then to add, Westwood, Vlaar (two players highly praised at times on this site) that would pretty much be the spine of the team performing well. Thats simply not true - and is supported by our league position.

 

They may have been better than others (although I actually think Bakers been better than Vlaar), but they havent been consistently good. No way.

 

 

It simply isn't that black and white though - the players you mentioned have now had a consistent run in the side together and we have had a decent run of results.

 

From the start of the season and the horror that was xmas, it was injuries, suspensions and the manager trying to find out his best team and what the players he inherited are like.

 

We were never going to hit the ground running - but now having a spine of guzan, vlaar, westy and tekkers in a stable team has started to show alot of promise and we have picked up crucial points.

 

We shouldn't start slating the team again over the man u result - it's the first time most have ever played there, and westwood played against his hero Carrick. These things affect young players.

 

I believe we will beat Norwich and Sunderland and westwood will play a big part (although unoticed) in that.

Edited April 24, 2013 by villan_007

[PaulC]

Fred West and John Christie might have been a better comparision as Jack the Ripper is probably a myth anyway, the main reason where we are where we are is because we have given away too many points from winning positions. The defence hasn't been good enough, prob the midfield too but Westwood stands out as the one that has been consistently our best midfield player.  To come from Crewe and step up like he has done is pretty remarkable, not as remarkable as Platt ....

[Big_John_10]

It simply isn't that black and white though

Sometimes it really is that simple.

In terms of our defence I can't see how any of our players can be considered a success. I'm struggling to think of examples of good defenders who play in a team that let's in record breaking amount of goals.

When Vlaar and Lowton play in the team we let in on average 1.7 goals a game.

When those two are joined by Bennett we let in on average 1.6 goals a game.

I think it's ridiculous to suggest these players have done ok.

[PaulC]

Those stats don't tell you everything. The own goals, offside goals. Theres too  many variables to take those type of stats seriously.

[Big_John_10]

Those stats don't tell you everything. The own goals, offside goals. Theres too  many variables to take those type of stats seriously.

Goals conceded can't be taken into account when discussing the defence?

What about having to go back to 1985 to find a season in which we let in more goals?

Or that our keeper is the only one in the league to have made over 200 saves and even after conceding a record breaking number of goals is in contention for our player of the year award?

This is the worst defence I've ever seen us have, would you disagree?

[caw2510]

 

Those stats don't tell you everything. The own goals, offside goals. Theres too  many variables to take those type of stats seriously.

Goals conceded can't be taken into account when discussing the defence?

What about having to go back to 1985 to find a season in which we let in more goals?

Or that our keeper is the only one in the league to have made over 200 saves and even after conceding a record breaking number of goals is in contention for our player of the year award?

This is the worst defence I've ever seen us have, would you disagree?

 

 

disagree

 

and dont forget until the chelsea game we played well with the 3 at the back

[Big_John_10]

Maybe you're older than me and can remember worse. Which season do you think our defence was worse?

and dont forget until the chelsea game we played well with the 3 at the back

I'm pretty sure before the Chelsea game we still had one one of the highest goals conceded numbers.

And also as Vlaar was out for the Xmas period I didn't include them in my stats above.

1.7 goals a game and that's without the period in which we let in 15 goals in 3 games.

[Woodytom]

Worst defence and Worst midfield I have ever known at VP!

[EssexVilla]

What I saw on Monday was pretty much what I have seen from Westwood all season (bar the last few games where to his credit, he has been effective).

 

Misplaced passes, poor set-pieces, no steel - not really anything. Posing the question - What does he bring to the team?

 

Just before the 3rd goal he had the ball in the centre - Lowton to the right in acres of space. Very simple ball needed. What does he do? Attempts to spray the ball 60 yard to the left, punting it hopelessly out of play. They retrieve possession and score. Now it would be unfair to blame Westwood for the goal because a lot happened in between, but where people say Westwoods good things go unnoticed (due to his style) - I think a lot of his bad things do as well. He has a relatively high passing percentage. But how much of it is effective? 

 

Its all rather pointless having a player who keeps the ball moving tidily if the people he is passing to are useless. Now again, thats not Westwoods fault. But my point is we need players who are effective - not players who could be effective with the right players around him. He isnt there for his tackling (clearly), he isnt there for his creativity and goals (clearly), so for me he isnt vital at this stage. If he is a player that keeps the ball moving then hes the final piece to the jigsaw - a jigsaw overwhelmingly incomplete at the minute.

 

Eh? You seem to to criticising him for trying an ambitious pass and that he should have played the simple pass in the 1st half of your post before saying he spends too much time playing the simple pass in the 2nd half of your post. You can't have it both ways.

[Con]

 

 

Eh? You seem to to criticising him for trying an ambitious pass and that he should have played the simple pass in the 1st half of your post before saying he spends too much time playing the simple pass in the 2nd half of your post. You can't have it both ways.

 

 

So when Westwood tries it, it's an "ambitious pass". When Bannan does it, it's a "hollywood ball".

 

The reason Westwood is making those kind of passes is because Bannan is not in the team and someone has to do the creative work, because Delph is too busy passing 40 yards back to Guzan to do it. Fact is, Westwood isn't as good as Bannan at creative spreading the play.

[Woodytom]

 

What I saw on Monday was pretty much what I have seen from Westwood all season (bar the last few games where to his credit, he has been effective).

 

Misplaced passes, poor set-pieces, no steel - not really anything. Posing the question - What does he bring to the team?

 

Just before the 3rd goal he had the ball in the centre - Lowton to the right in acres of space. Very simple ball needed. What does he do? Attempts to spray the ball 60 yard to the left, punting it hopelessly out of play. They retrieve possession and score. Now it would be unfair to blame Westwood for the goal because a lot happened in between, but where people say Westwoods good things go unnoticed (due to his style) - I think a lot of his bad things do as well. He has a relatively high passing percentage. But how much of it is effective? 

 

Its all rather pointless having a player who keeps the ball moving tidily if the people he is passing to are useless. Now again, thats not Westwoods fault. But my point is we need players who are effective - not players who could be effective with the right players around him. He isnt there for his tackling (clearly), he isnt there for his creativity and goals (clearly), so for me he isnt vital at this stage. If he is a player that keeps the ball moving then hes the final piece to the jigsaw - a jigsaw overwhelmingly incomplete at the minute.

 

Eh? You seem to to criticising him for trying an ambitious pass and that he should have played the simple pass in the 1st half of your post before saying he spends too much time playing the simple pass in the 2nd half of your post. You can't have it both ways.

 

 

 

Im not criticising him at all for trying an ambitious pass. Im criticising him for executing it so badly. Im not bothered whether he plays simple passes - the word 'effective' is what I am bothered about. 

[PaulC]

 

Those stats don't tell you everything. The own goals, offside goals. Theres too  many variables to take those type of stats seriously.

Goals conceded can't be taken into account when discussing the defence?

What about having to go back to 1985 to find a season in which we let in more goals?

Or that our keeper is the only one in the league to have made over 200 saves and even after conceding a record breaking number of goals is in contention for our player of the year award?

This is the worst defence I've ever seen us have, would you disagree?

 

 

Yes quite possibly is but it was a new defence put together for the start of the season and even in pre-season there were huge warning signs against lesser opposition, so they had to learn and develop the hard way and there have been signs of improvement but unfortunately it doesn't show because we still keep making errors. But there certainly has been an improvement from crosses and set-pieces. We were truly dreadful before. If we stay up we will be better next season.

[EssexVilla]

 

 

 

Eh? You seem to to criticising him for trying an ambitious pass and that he should have played the simple pass in the 1st half of your post before saying he spends too much time playing the simple pass in the 2nd half of your post. You can't have it both ways.

 

 

So when Westwood tries it, it's an "ambitious pass". When Bannan does it, it's a "hollywood ball".

 

The reason Westwood is making those kind of passes is because Bannan is not in the team and someone has to do the creative work, because Delph is too busy passing 40 yards back to Guzan to do it. Fact is, Westwood isn't as good as Bannan at creative spreading the play.

 

 

I don't post much, you can't generalise me with other posters who call a similar pass something else. The fact is that westwood has been making those passes all season and due to the low percentage of success with those sorts of passes he will get them wrong. IMO Bannan, who I believe does have technical ability, tries those passes too often and as a result wastes possession too often whereas westwood for me knows more about when to play that sort of pass even if he doesnt complete it every time.

 

@woodytom I'd say due to the low percentage nature of the pass the player will get it occasionally wrong (not sure what pass you are actually talking about, dont remember from the game and havent watched it back so my judgments are from your description). He isn't carrick or alonso, he plays for a team at our current level for a reason. I think what me and maybe what other posters have been saying is that at the moment he is good enough to play for a lower half or relegation battling team with his current level of ability. However, when you take into account that this is a big step up from league 2 where he was playing last season he has done pretty well and that he could be a very good player in the future for us once he improves on his game through experience of playing at a higher level to what he was used to and once he gets used to improves he will be a player good enough to help us to a similar standard as to what we were a couple of years ago.

[KHV]

Worst defence and Worst midfield I have ever known at VP!

yeah it is the worst I have ever seen. and i have seen some crap ones

[TRO]

The Man U game was more of a horror show than I could possibly have imagined.

 

There have been improvements in our game during the season, but primarily they have been of an offensive nature.... defensively against Man U we were woeful.

 

we have recently seen Bayern Munich and Borussia Dortmund take on 2 of the worlds best teams in a pressure cooker of a champions league semi final.

 

whilst I am not trying to compare Bayern or Dortmund With Aston Villa what I am attempting to do is show how young players from those 2 teams defied the over powering quality of the 2 spanish giants by closing them down and denying them space.... both teams were winning most of the second balls and approched the game with a strong physical and mental belief.

 

sure the 2 German teams are much better than us, but on paper they were not rated better than the 2 Spanish teams.... none the less they got stuck in.

 

In contrast, what we did at Old trafford was the complete opposite, it was puny, wimpy and had no physical or mental belief of any description.

 

There are still some very serious questions to be asked of our players and on Monday night I seen no sign of any answers ....had United not decided to turn the second half in to a training session we would have been well and truly buried.

 

There is certainly a hell of a long way to go for us....I want to see a bit more " eye of the tiger" from Lamberts team.

 

a mean streak  needs to creep in to our game.

 

Ps it wasn't the loss ( we all expected that) it was the manner.

 

pps I'm sorry...I shouldn't have post this under the " Ashley Westwood" title.... my apologies.

Edited April 24, 2013 by TRO

[TRO]

Fred West and John Christie might have been a better comparision as Jack the Ripper is probably a myth anyway, the main reason where we are where we are is because we have given away too many points from winning positions. The defence hasn't been good enough, prob the midfield too but Westwood stands out as the one that has been consistently our best midfield player.  To come from Crewe and step up like he has done is pretty remarkable, not as remarkable as Platt ....

 I'm all for being positive, but I don't quite see the "green shoots" of the dominating midfielder that you do. fizzing balls around the field unchallenged is not my idea of a great prospect. I want to see much much much more of a physical game from that type of midfielder before I start to get excited.

 

I sincerely hope you are right and I am wrong, but for me far,far too lightweight and not comfortable in the challenge.I want to see a more dominating character, not dirty, dominating and relentless.