R.I.C.O. Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Undoubtably McLeish. All three turned out to be woeful managers, but the other two have nothing on McShit. O'Leary's main problem was he was stuck working with Ellis. He behaved like a tosser in the main but acheived the same as Saint Martin but with less money. Houllier was past it as a manager but even in the depths of the trouble he took us into you knew we'd get out of it, I mean we had both Downing and Young to ping the crosses in to Bent. McLeish was an absolute abomination. I doubt whether he will work in top flight football again, the man is the worst Villa manager I have witnessed at the club. All I could see was doom if he stayed. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam_ Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Mcleish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Clearly out of those Mcleish is worst. Let's throw the cat amongst the pigeons in here for a little bit of a laugh.... where's MON in that list? David O'Leary and Houllier have acheived more in English Football than he has / ever will. DOL did the same as MON with less than a quarter of the wage bill when MON left. People will then mention Scotland where he did do well to be fair yet still only had the same trophy haul as a certain Mcleish in the same time frame. Then also consider that McLeish somehow got a shite Blues team to win deservedly the Carling cup by taking the game to Arsenal - rather than a year earlier when in control of the game at 1 nil up we sat back, laid down and waited for United to beat us..... Really, what has he acheived that's so remarkable? Leicester he was amazing and incredibly won a crap team 2 cups - fair play. At Villa he did OK (when you take into account he quadrupled the wage bill in his time here) but that expense should have got us 6th - so no miracle work there. When he **** off (in such a petulent manner) - we had the 13th highest average wage bill of any football team in the entire world - so 6th in the Premier League is hardly surprising. He spent very poorly and even the good signings were way overpriced. MON really is so overrated it's untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 No you can hate MON for all the shitty signings he made, and anything else.. But when it comes down to pure Football and Having AVFC challenging, you can't doubt that he nearly broke into the top 4, and took us to a cup final.. We didn't get 4th - we were closer actually to 4th under DOL with a fraction of teh wage bill. Great we got to a final - how did that turn out? Remember how we laid back and let them beat us then compare a year later when our worst manager ever somehow got the noses to take the game to a nd ultimately deservedly bear Arsenal. If you get to a final - try to win it, jees even the noses did that - and before we here the old Vidic shoulod have been sent off (he sjhould tbf), Arsenals keeper should have gone after a minute of their game as well - but did they sulk and go on about it (like MON did for months after) or did they re-group and take the game to arsenal and win the game? His football (MONs was shite) and ultimately that's why we ended up with McLeish - they tried to get a football man in (Houllier - who is one of the best at that game lyon were a great team to watch) and the players were unsuitable so when he had his heart scare they decided to get someone in with the same tactical / style of play as MON and hence we ended up with that plonker - the noses 9th place then the cup win was enough for lerner to (foolishly) take a gamble on him. MON really isn't that good. In scotland MON = Mcleish, since leaving Leicester McLeish has won more trophies than MON in England - does that make himk a better manager~/ Not necessarily - BUT MON is far from being the saviour he is portrayed as. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Houllier, without a shadow of a doubt. Managed to undo all of the good work done by MON leaving McLeish the legacy of a squad in turmoil. DOL became bad but started off well. You genuinely think Houllier was worse than McLeish? Really? That's astounding. Houlliers regime was poor but there were some glimpses or real quality - the first 80 mins v Man United at home was better than any MON performance - Sir Alex said "we could have been 6 down" befpre they scored. There were no highlights in the McLeish regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Houllier, without a shadow of a doubt. Managed to undo all of the good work done by MON leaving McLeish the legacy of a squad in turmoil. DOL became bad but started off well. Houllier hardly inherited the perfect team from MON did he? Some very good players, some very bad. I think most managers would have struggled trying to replicate what O'Neill had achieved. He had to tear it apart to rebuild it. We only saw the first half of this. At least he had a plan! Exactly, Houllier did have a plan and look at the dross MON left behind. THAT defense. Shocking. 3 people that couldn't score to save their lives (CArew was a statue by then), a truly woeful defense and tbf to him a great midfield (on paper). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 For what it's worth GED was the worst for the contempt arrogance and total disrespect shown to the club and fans Worse than leaving the club 5 days before the start of a new season? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Personally I think McLeish was the worst of the lot for disrespecting the club, but I'm probably in the minority here. Totally disagree, as much of a bad manager he was he acted with dignity more than the rest of them and especially MON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 For what it's worth GED was the worst for the contempt arrogance and total disrespect shown to the club and fans Worse than leaving the club 5 days before the start of a new season? I think not. Tend to agree, it was an act if malicious, selfish defiance by the rocket polisher O'Neill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Is there any reason MON isn't in the poll options You could argue he's done more damage than any of the other 3 and you'd be right to argue that. The wage bill has **** us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Houllier let himself and the club down. To be in a relegation fight with only Milner missing from the side that finished top 6 plus over £25m spent in the January window, upsetting almost the entire side and looking completely uninterested, is spectacularly bad. Even Gary McAllister managed to turn the side around in the few weeks he was in charge once Houllier got ill, probably by not treating the players like naughty children. McLeish was a total failure but had a much tougher job to do. O'Leary like O'Neill generally had more success than failure so shouldn't be compared to those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Sorry but MON needs to be in on this poll Yes he cleared up the debris of DOL but then created a bigger toxic problem A problem we are still dealing with & the way he walked out and timing is inexcusable and let's not forget the wages from £20m to £80m under him.... when he left we had the 13th highest average wage of any football team in the world... and how many world class players? 0 Gabby, heskey, Dunne, Luke Young etc all on higher wages than Luca Modric is getting now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Sorry but MON needs to be in on this poll Yes he cleared up the debris of DOL but then created a bigger toxic problem A problem we are still dealing with & the way he walked out and timing is inexcusable Bollocks - regardless of what he may or may not of caused - challenging for the top 4 and being in cup finals isn't called being a flop. Good point that - MON wasn't a flop (more that he caused the most damage out of them all). He wasn't a flop and results wise did OK - nothing spectacular given the money situation etc - but he (alongside Randy & Faulkner for letting him do it) is the root cause of all our problems now - due to the money absolutely wasted on wages and average players Don't get me wrong he did some amazing things - in his 3rd year - when we were 3rd into teh new year - you have to take your hat off to him, we were 3rd and looked genuine title contenders despite playing woeful football (the hull away win was sympematic of this run - rubbish, flukey own goal, but 3 points!... 3rd!), but he threw that away with his stubbornnes of not rotating and playing 442 instead of the 451 which got us the - albeit very lucky - very good results (was in 8 away wons in a row or something silly like that?). And we did that whilst playing poorly - I thought if we can get these results playing so dire if we start to play well - where could we finish. Then Laursen got injured, he froze ouut NRC (to close out games, turning wins into draws and draws into losses by leaving us chronically open in the centre), played out of form Carew / heskey and Gabby as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.I.C.O. Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Good shout for MON, he achieved the very bare minimum he did with the bottomless pit of money that was made available to him, but he was not a flop. Transfers wise, his record was hit-and-miss, and the tactics were limited and one-dminesional, but they were largely effective. My biggest gripe with MON was pissing huge amounts of money away so fast, largely on dross that had no resale value, and which would definitely cause a mess for whoever came in after him (by summer 2010 it was time for a change to be honest). We've heard rumours of how much he sanctioned for average cloggers like Heskey (£65k p/w) and Sidwell (£55k p/w), and how much he dithered during the summer and then when faced with this, he overspent massively to bring them in (Harewood, Dunne, Collins, Warnock for example). Sunderland will find this out to their cost eventually. The man is a myth, probably built up during his time at Leicester and Celtic, the fact he jumps around on the touchline, but ultimately his time working in punditry with the BBC where he built himself into the old boys network of Lineker, Hansen, Lawrenson etc. The man has a huge cult of personality in the sports media that his tactical and transfer limitations are glossed over. However, at least MON got us results on a sustained basis, which cannot be said of the other three. You have to at least give him credit for that, but I'm sure many other managers would have achieved more with the free reigh he was given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commander Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Good shout for MON, he achieved the very bare minimum he did with the bottomless pit of money that was made available to him. We've heard rumours of how much he sanctioned for average cloggers like Heskey (£65k p/w) and Sidwell (£55k p/w), and how much he dithered during the summer and then when faced with this, he overspent massively to bring them in (Harewood, Dunne, Collins, Warnock for example). Sunderland will find this out to their cost eventually. The man is a myth, probably built up during his time at Leicester and Celtic, the fact he jumps around on the touchline, but ultimately his time working in punditry with the BBC where he built himself into the old boys network of Lineker, Hansen, Lawrenson etc. The man has a huge cult of personality in the sports media that his tactical and transfer limitations are glossed over. However, at least MON got us results on a sustained basis, which cannot be said of the other three. You have to at least give him credit for that, but I'm sure many other managers would have achieved more with the free reigh he was given. totally agree, (having spent the last hour reading through this thread :facepalm: ) MON is a little like Harry in that the press never have anything bad to say about him, he's a proper media darling, I think after 2 full years at sunderland people will wise up to him But I wouldn't necessarily label him a flop - but he was most definitely the architect of our downfall and the man most responsible for our massive decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Personally I think McLeish was the worst of the lot for disrespecting the club, but I'm probably in the minority here. Totally disagree, as much of a bad manager he was he acted with dignity more than the rest of them and especially MONDisagree. MON for me is the worst for disrespecting the club with the way he walked out, but McLeish was no saint either. Constantly talking the club down and acting like we were some tin-pot club. "We can't expect to beat the elite teams". The amount of times we'd put in a shambolic performance and then he'd appear in the post-match interview visibly delighted is ridiculous. He also constantly tried to shift the blame away from himself (something Houllier was firecely criticised for doing yet McLeish seemed to escape from that criticism). Even after he was sacked he was trying to justify his pathetic performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 It's like arguing which one you would rather wake up in Shit, Piss or sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Yep, 11 pages of scab picking since this morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Yeah this thread is Painful, reminds me of bad Times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted August 4, 2012 Share Posted August 4, 2012 It's like arguing which one you would rather wake up in Shit, Piss or sick. Would you rather be hit in the balls with a hammer, have you legs broken slowly in a vice, or have a lorry roll over your face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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