Gentingthereslowly Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 yet first of all ireland took too long on the ball, bent had to hold his run so was on his heels Bent was offside I think. Ireland was waiting for him to become onside. Bent had gone to soon as he was expecting the pass from holman, when holman fed Ireland bent had gone to far ahead and needed to check his run, cant really fault Ireland for this... I understand people expecting more from him based on his reported wages but it seems a bit silly to argue over it when we consider what warnock and hutton are getting to do F-all, at least Ireland is going out putting in a shift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Every media source I've checked has holman as MoM, except Sunday Mirror who went with KEA. Even the official match sponsor MoM was Holman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Vlaar was MoM for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAndLoyal Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 If Lambert can help SI get over it then we have the perfect player to work alongside KEA and Bannan in a midfield trio, but until then he will only really shine against lesser opposition. So how do you explain his man of the match performance up at Newcastle then? I'd hardly call them "lesser" opposition. So much rubbish is spouted about Stephen Ireland because of a number of reasons - too many than I care to go into. Yes, he has acted like a prat in the past. And, yes, he needs to be far more consistent for us. But, you can tell he is trying to knuckle down more under Lambert, and his quality still shines through on occasions. What he needs is a regular run in the side now, which he is getting at the moment, to prove that he can produce performances like the one up at Newcastle on a regular basis. If he can, he will be one of the first names down on the teamsheet. Of that I have no doubt. If your going to quote then quote the whole comment! He may have been your MOM but he wasn't mine! To me it was clear that Holman was MOM against Newcastle. I personally think the billing Ireland gets that newcastle display should be the MINIMUM we expect! If he is our best player then he should be getting MOM's more than any other player, but really the only MOM he has this season is against Tranmere! That includes preseason as well! Your entitled to your opinion, but really Ireland is one of many good players at Villa and out of all of them he is the one capable of more, yet always plays within himself! It's clear his head isn't right to me. I quoted the part relevant to my response. We can go round in circles about who we thought was man of the match at Newcastle. Fact of the matter is he was named as the best Villa player by a number of the top national papers and had his best game in a Villa shirt (by far) by completely bossing that midfield. He oozed class against Newcastle, no doubt spurred on by the 'reception' he got from the Geordies. I'm not sure where you get the idea from that he's our best player. I haven't suggested that and I'm not aware of anyone else who has either. What I'm saying is Ireland does have potential to play like he did at Newcastle every week. To do that, he needs a run in the side and a bit of support from the fans and management staff around him - he is that sort of player. The signs are encouraging so far as PL obviously seems to rate him and his performances have generally been good, even though it's too early in the season to judge. But for many reasons people on here are quick to make him a scapegoat and vilify him. You say the Newcastle performance is the minimum you expect from him - well, why? This is Stephen Ireland we're talking about, not Messi. He had one good season at Manchester City and I think people need to put that in perspective and be realistic about the maximum he is capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Oozed class ? Who ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sonic_bouma Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 But for many reasons people on here are quick to make him a scapegoat and vilify him. I hardly think waiting two years for him to produce the odd goal or assist is "quick". At the moment he is firmly in the "replace at the end of the season" file Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodigan Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 i think with regards to SI, his salary and the fact that we have him at all has to be taken in the context of how he can to join us, which was as a makeshift part of the james milner sale to man city. as a stand-alone transfer, i don't think he would ever havce been with us, and certainly would not for the type of money that he was on at man city... the fact that he is being paid that much, probably makes him unsellable in the current market, as i can see no reason why he would (or should) take a pay cut and move somewhere else... from his perspective, he is currently the fans player of the year, is in the starting XI of a young and exciting new team that has a great heritage and a bright future, and is being paid more here than he would be paid anywhere else.... why on earth would he leave? lovely guy, and on his day a good player... its interesting to me that amongst our worst performers are actually our highest paid players in the squad... can't wait til they all fire up - then it will be great times again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Did Ireland have a shot yesterday? Yes. Why the consistent dogs abuse? If he doesn't win man of the match its straight to VT to have a pop. When he does win man of the match its straight to VT to argue why he wasn't. Yes he's on ridiculous wages, yes he's inconsistent. But right now he's worth a spot based on performances according to the manager. Good enough for me. (not aimed at you specifically sonic, at least your reasoning is thought out and relevant) He grafted Saturday, as he always does. Not the best of performances from a technical standpoint but there were one or two defence splitters in there and he was consistently involved. Every bit the team player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Disagree. First 25 mins everything he touched went to the opposition. And I don't recall any defence splitting passes. Poor performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarpie Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Every player is bound to have games where they won't play as well as in some other games, he was very good against Newcastle, was pretty average against Swansea. He's on big wages sure, and he knows he's gotta show what he can do to earn new contract which he clearly wants (at least now). Just out of curiosity, do you know any other players who are capable of pulling the creativity and flair as Ireland is who'd be on half the wages he's on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Every player is bound to have games where they won't play as well as in some other games, he was very good against Newcastle, was pretty average against Swansea. He's on big wages sure, and he knows he's gotta show what he can do to earn new contract which he clearly wants (at least now). Just out of curiosity, do you know any other players who are capable of pulling the creativity and flair as Ireland is who'd be on half the wages he's on? I bet our scouts do. What is the point in having a creative player like Ireland if he doesn't actually create chances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanisgod Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I bet our scouts do. What is the point in having a creative player like Ireland if he doesn't actually create chances? What's the point in having a natural goal scorer on similar wages if he doesn't actually score any goals? The point is sometimes players are picked because of what you know they can or might do, if PL was to pick a strikeforce on actual goals scored then Weiman and Benteke would start and Bent would be on the bench, but who would you want the ball to fall to in the 6 yard box? Sometimes you need to stick with a player to play them into form, I would argue SI is not out of form but perhaps lacking a bit of confidence, plus the starting line is still new it will take time for the creative side of the game to click into place. So my question is are you on the Bent page abusing him so much for doing naff all for his huge wages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Just out of curiosity, do you know any other players who are capable of pulling the creativity and flair as Ireland is who'd be on half the wages he's on? James Morrisson, Craig Gardner, Michael Chopra How longs a piece of string Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I bet our scouts do. What is the point in having a creative player like Ireland if he doesn't actually create chances? What's the point in having a natural goal scorer on similar wages if he doesn't actually score any goals? The point is sometimes players are picked because of what you know they can or might do, if PL was to pick a strikeforce on actual goals scored then Weiman and Benteke would start and Bent would be on the bench, but who would you want the ball to fall to in the 6 yard box? Sometimes you need to stick with a player to play them into form, I would argue SI is not out of form but perhaps lacking a bit of confidence, plus the starting line is still new it will take time for the creative side of the game to click into place. So my question is are you on the Bent page abusing him so much for doing naff all for his huge wages? Bent has recently come back from an injury (also missed some of pre season) and is regaining his sharpness. Ireland played regularly for the majority of the second half of the season. Bent has also got a proven track record of producing the goods. Besides one terrific season at city, Ireland has never on a consistent level shown himself to be a really creative player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanthemanisgod Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 I bet our scouts do. What is the point in having a creative player like Ireland if he doesn't actually create chances? What's the point in having a natural goal scorer on similar wages if he doesn't actually score any goals? The point is sometimes players are picked because of what you know they can or might do, if PL was to pick a strikeforce on actual goals scored then Weiman and Benteke would start and Bent would be on the bench, but who would you want the ball to fall to in the 6 yard box? Sometimes you need to stick with a player to play them into form, I would argue SI is not out of form but perhaps lacking a bit of confidence, plus the starting line is still new it will take time for the creative side of the game to click into place. So my question is are you on the Bent page abusing him so much for doing naff all for his huge wages? Bent has recently come back from an injury (also missed some of pre season) and is regaining his sharpness. Ireland played regularly for the majority of the second half of the season. Bent has also got a proven track record of producing the goods. Besides one terrific season at city, Ireland has never on a consistent level shown himself to be a really creative player. And whilst I accept that mitigation, I would argue that whilst at Villa Ireland has never really been played in a team equipped to get the best out of a creative player. But my point is people see things in a very black and white way on these boards eg Ireland hasn't scored or been credited with any assists and therefore is not worth his wages. Well in the same way you could argue Bent hasn't scored and therefore isn't worth his. In reality both are performing well enough to earn a place in the team and we'd like to see more from both. But Ireland is getting slated and nobody has commented on the Bent page since August. Seems a little unfair if you ask me, seeing as the majotrity of the abuse is based on his wages, whic are in the same ball park as Bent's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulver Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 The other difference is Bent's pretty much done his job since coming to Villa, and his goals record still stands up well. Ireland on the other hand has gone from a supposed 'top class' creative talent, with 'more skill than anyone else at the club' into a hard working midfielder with no goal threat or much assist threat either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarpie Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 First year Ireland hardly played because of Houllier's antics, second year we had TSM so can you expect him to be creative and create chances with the set up and tactics by TSM? and we've had four games in this season in PL so far so I'm willing to give him some time to get accustomed into new tactics and gel with the teammates - he has at least till january or next summer to show his talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 0 goals 0 assists so far under lambert That includes 6 pre season games & tranmere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted September 17, 2012 Moderator Share Posted September 17, 2012 0 goals 0 assists so far under lambert That includes 6 pre season games & tranmere Surely then your view would be that this also reflects badly on Lambert to a degree, as he's the one who keeps picking him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steell Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Same old scapegoating, boring. The great thing about PL is that he's shown already that he has absolutely no problems about dropping players who he doesn't think are putting in the effort, or he has a better alternative for - whatever the wage or the reputation - so if PL keeps picking him then that's all the proof I need that he's good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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