blandy Posted December 2, 2023 Moderator Share Posted December 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: I know of several people that have an higher power and pray everyday to their higher power. They are adamant it works and sets them up perfectly for the day. Psychological? Possibly, but having a god in their life works wonders for them.. I think it's called the placebo effect. But whatever, good for them. It's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 14 minutes ago, blandy said: I think it's called the placebo effect. But whatever, good for them. It's fine. Yeah more than likely but as you say if it works for them then power to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 2, 2023 Moderator Share Posted December 2, 2023 3 hours ago, chrisp65 said: We were specifically discussing whether god could do something about fossil fuels You clearly didn’t get the creation memo Runs away to be morally and intellectually superior, cos it makes me all warm and fuzzy inside 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 2, 2023 Moderator Share Posted December 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: We were specifically discussing whether god could do something about fossil fuels, that prayers might help. I suggest atheists might want to wish hard, rather wishing others could do something. I don’t have a problem with atheists, just the ones that feel a bit morally or intellectually superior. Atheists wishes and hand wringing don’t appear to be working much better than prayers in stopping all kinds of horrors, if we’re broadening this out to a general pop at the religious and the non religious. There’s space for everyone to not actually do much to change the things they wish would change. It’s like we all have free will, the quick and the slow, but we use it to watch the telly and hope others do soemthing. You might have been. I saw your post as discussing a bit more than that. You mentioned god giving people free will to not buy the Torygraph and how atheists are lazy and so on. Truth is there lazy people and there’s people who do stuff and it’s got eff all to do with invisible sky fairies. Im not sure either that there’s such a thing as free will. We’re just meat robots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 7 minutes ago, blandy said: You mentioned god giving people free will to not buy the Torygraph The interesting thing is the Bible is silent on free will. Lot's about being able to choose, but nada of free will. Apologists have to assert that god gives us free will, otherwise, the current interpretation of the New Testament makes absolutely no sense. Also, there is some evidence that Jesus (should he have existed) was an Essene, which is a Jewish sect that interpreted the Bible deterministically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 2, 2023 Moderator Share Posted December 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: Apologists have to assert that god gives us free will, otherwise, the current interpretation of the New Testament makes absolutely no sense A sorry state of affairs, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 2, 2023 Moderator Share Posted December 2, 2023 3 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: Also, there is some evidence that Jesus (should he have existed) was an Essene, which is a Jewish sect that interpreted the Bible deterministically Being as there is zero evidence that Jesus existed, how can there be evidence that he was a member of a particular sub-cult of Judaism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted December 2, 2023 Share Posted December 2, 2023 4 hours ago, chrisp65 said: Atheists wishes are literally and by definition wishful thinking and have never been known to work better than prayers. VT Awards false equivalence of the year award goes to… 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 5 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said: I know of several people that have an higher power and pray everyday to their higher power. They are adamant it works and sets them up perfectly for the day. Psychological? Possibly, but having a god in their life works wonders for them . I’m not necessarily on about the god in the bible here, but just an higher power. Funnily enough I’ve just started reading The Catechism of the Catholic Church . The kingdom of heaven is within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 5 hours ago, bickster said: Being as there is zero evidence that Jesus existed, how can there be evidence that he was a member of a particular sub-cult of Judaism? This does seem to be a minority view amongst historians. But it does fit my tribe's narrative. 1 hour ago, chrisp65 said: The kingdom of heaven is within. And all around us if one bothers with Bible stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 5 hours ago, blandy said: A sorry state of affairs, then. Depends on how one interprets the consequences of not having free will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 3, 2023 Moderator Share Posted December 3, 2023 3 hours ago, fruitvilla said: This does seem to be a minority view amongst historian Evidence is not an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 6 hours ago, chrisp65 said: The kingdom of heaven is within. Didn’t know you were a man of faith , Welcome to the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 12 hours ago, Rugeley Villa said: I know of several people that have an higher power and pray everyday to their higher power. They are adamant it works and sets them up perfectly for the day. Psychological? Possibly, but having a god in their life works wonders for them . I’m not necessarily on about the god in the bible here, but just an higher power. Funnily enough I’ve just started reading The Catechism of the Catholic Church . They believe they have a higher power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Seat68 said: They believe they have a higher power. You believe they don’t ? Edited December 3, 2023 by Rugeley Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: You believe they don’t ? Well their higher power unless provable is just a belief in a higher power, or that they believe they have a higher power. Thats completely fine but just a belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Seat68 said: Well their higher power unless provable is just a belief in a higher power, or that they believe they have a higher power. Thats completely fine but just a belief. How good are your knees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: How good are your knees? Terrible. Wish I had looked after them. A wish that goes up into the air without anyone to grant it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 3, 2023 Moderator Share Posted December 3, 2023 48 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said: Didn’t know you were a man of faith , Welcome to the club. Thought you were more of a Sabbath man than a Funkadelic man? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted December 3, 2023 Share Posted December 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Seat68 said: Terrible. Wish I had looked after them. A wish that goes up into the air without anyone to grant it. Prey with me this morning and in communion we’ll ask again for some new knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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