Rodders Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 how do you get indoctrinated by a discipline that at it's core demands you try and prove it wrong? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 14, 2018 Moderator Share Posted July 14, 2018 I’m thinking of starting a campaign of defacing the posters outside the church at the end of my road. Beginning to pee me off no end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 17 minutes ago, mjmooney said: Indoctrinated by science? No. The 'more questions than answers' thing is at the very core of science (particularly in quantum theory). The point is that - while intuition is a valuable tool - it must be backed up with quantifiable evidence. Religion blindly disregards this, and goes solely by intuition mixed up with myth and legend. The minute you try and justify it, it falls apart. Wishful thinking at best, evil brainwashing at worst. Indoctrinate: Teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically. Science is not always presented in such a humble manner as you present it. Though I would agree, and why I said 'done by virtue', that it provokes critical thinking based on evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Rodders said: how do you get indoctrinated by a discipline that at it's core demands you try and prove it wrong? Because an idea requires a person to convey it. People get attached to ideas and are prone to bias. For example there are many people who would suggest that chemistry, biology and physics are the only forms of evidence and explanation that matters, when science can't prove this. Edited July 14, 2018 by A'Villan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) absolutely true, but I am wary of any attempt to make an equivalence in worth between science and fairy stories. ( One can enjoy or take lessons from any story, but it is clearly therefore highly subjective and is ludicrous when they try and claim any totalising truths based on wish-fulfillment ) I mean, I don't consider myself scientifically literate, but it's fundamentally far easier to respect a discipline that is subject to peer review. Whilst there are flaws in it, and they have issues with the pressure for Impact in journal articles ( and plenty of made up journals designed to exploit the cache attached to science, i.e. Some random self-publishes in a fancy sounding Journal, though this is easily discredited by anyone applying cursory inquiry), but there are so many checks and balances built in to guard against nonsense, the homeopaths and all that poppycock, and ones own bias'. I do find psychology very interesting on all that ( Kahneman wrote a superb book Thinking, Fast and Slow on the fallibility of human thinking btw ) Edited July 14, 2018 by Rodders 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) I'm not saying a truly scientific approach is anything other than our best way of explaining the phenomenon that is life. "If you're certain, you're certainly wrong" Has God been disproved? Has the etymology behind religion been fully and accurately explored? Does Western thinking have the ability to interpret the writing and thinking of the East, is it possible something was lost in translation? Edited July 14, 2018 by A'Villan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted July 14, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted July 14, 2018 1 hour ago, A'Villan said: Has God been disproved? That old chestnut. No, any more than the flying spaghetti monster. No need to. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brumerican Posted July 14, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted July 14, 2018 1 hour ago, A'Villan said: Has God been disproved? Which one ? 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 11 minutes ago, mjmooney said: That old chestnut. No, any more than the flying spaghetti monster. No need to. Okay. This is the exact kind of thinking I am referring to. Who is making claims of flying spaghetti monsters? I'm guessing not even schizophrenics. What created heat, gravity and the forces necessary in the grand unification theory in order for the big bang to occur? Physics has some hard limits, perhaps the best known one is the speed of light which sets a ‘cosmic speed limit’. These physical limitations circumscribe what information is ‘knowable’ or ‘measurable’. While one can pontificate what happens outside the realm of these constraints, this stops being physics (an empirical science) and starts being something else (mathematics or philosophy at best, quackery at worst). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, A'Villan said: What created heat, gravity and the forces necessary in the grand unification theory in order for the big bang to occur? I never knew science had a deadline ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Brumerican said: Which one ? That is a question that has totally thrown me off guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 Just now, A'Villan said: That is a question that has totally thrown me off guard. It is supposed to . Everyone is an atheist. It's just a case of by how much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Brumerican said: It is supposed to . Everyone is an atheist. It's just a case of by how much. I know it was supposed to throw me off guard, credit where it's due. Let me do some digging, as I've read the content before, just can't recall it, so I am better equipped to answer that question. In short though, I believe religion to be misunderstood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 9 minutes ago, Brumerican said: I never knew science had a deadline ? Can you elaborate on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 2 hours ago, A'Villan said: For example there are many people who would suggest that chemistry, biology and physics are the only forms of evidence and explanation that matters, when science can't prove this. They moved on to quantum fields quite some time ago and there are many avenues being explored to try and explain how these fields came to be . Nobody said science was done ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, A'Villan said: Can you elaborate on this? Science is an ongoing pursuit . There's still much to discover. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 14, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted July 14, 2018 When science has all the answers, it'll stop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turvontour Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 57 minutes ago, mjmooney said: That old chestnut. No, any more than the flying spaghetti monster. No need to. But isnt following God, in some ways similar to following Villa, or to watching Eastenders religously? "He's got the whole world in his hands." "We're by far the greatest team, the world has ever seen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 14, 2018 Moderator Share Posted July 14, 2018 6 minutes ago, turvontour said: But isnt following God, in some ways similar to following Villa, or to watching Eastenders religously? "He's got the whole world in his hands." "We're by far the greatest team, the world has ever seen." similar but more harmful. All three are stupid though 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted July 14, 2018 Share Posted July 14, 2018 8 minutes ago, turvontour said: But isnt following God, in some ways similar to following Villa, or to watching Eastenders religously? "He's got the whole world in his hands." "We're by far the greatest team, the world has ever seen." They're only similar if you were to say that laws, culture and education should be based upon the foundations of Aston villa and EastEnders . Irrational beliefs are fine as long as they stay inside the skull and don't manifest themselves as irrational actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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