briny_ear Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Players looked knackered for him todayI wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that they played 120 minutes of testing football three days ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Does anyone care ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Yes. Anyone taking the trouble to come to a thread titled "Martin O'Neill", just at a rough guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAlex Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Players looked knackered for him todayI wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that they played 120 minutes of testing football three days ago? Ahh but that is a limitation of a manager not being able to make use of his squad. In the cup game he made 3 substutions, all late in the second half of extra time. He then used pretty much the same team and again made no substitutions till late. If the players are knackered, the manager should be making better use of his squad, a squad which is one of the largest in numbers in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Players looked knackered for him todayI wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that they played 120 minutes of testing football three days ago? Ahh but that is a limitation of a manager not being able to make use of his squad. In the cup game he made 3 substutions, all late in the second half of extra time. He then used pretty much the same team and again made no substitutions till late. If the players are knackered, the manager should be making better use of his squad, a squad which is one of the largest in numbers in the league.Large numbers doesn't necessarily equal good quality. I doubt whether he has that many options tbf. Don't forget they were playing Arsenal. What did you expect, draft in the Academy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaAlex Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Players looked knackered for him todayI wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that they played 120 minutes of testing football three days ago? Ahh but that is a limitation of a manager not being able to make use of his squad. In the cup game he made 3 substutions, all late in the second half of extra time. He then used pretty much the same team and again made no substitutions till late. If the players are knackered, the manager should be making better use of his squad, a squad which is one of the largest in numbers in the league.Large numbers doesn't necessarily equal good quality. I doubt whether he has that many options tbf. Don't forget they were playing Arsenal. What did you expect, draft in the Academy? Not a lot of teams have plenty of options in this league, but they still rotate. You defended Sunderland being tired, I have given a reason why it was so. O'Neill was the same when he was with us, we always used the least amount of players in the league which was why we always drifted off towards March time. You made the defence, I made the counter argument and I think the facts stand up against my point. It doesn't matter about the result or not the point was about Sunderland being tired, and as to why they were tired and the reason for that is evidently clear. That is why I see it is as a limitation, no manager is perfect you know, you don't have to defend every ounce of criticism put against him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Players looked knackered for him todayI wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that they played 120 minutes of testing football three days ago? Of course, I forget he never rotates. Thanks for reminding me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Very good manager, but the higher his team gets the more they struggle. Be interesting to see his signings as well. Who thinks he'd have gone out and signed Sessegnon ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Who thinks he'd have gone out and signed Sessegnon ?Of course he wouldn't have, that's why I think it'll be interesting when he's been there for a while and has assembled his own team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted February 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted February 12, 2012 We all know O'Neill's strengths they can't really be questioned, we all know his faults equally well and they too can't really be questioned. What is there new to say about the man? Sunderland fans will at the moment be enjoying the positives of the strengths of his management, in two or three years I think they will have a more rounded view of him as a manager and understand first hand his limitations. I don't think there is much else to say about him, he did well here but should have done better here. He made some great signings and he made some bloody terrible ones. Most of us would have rather he stayed than have Houllier or McLeish but many of us weren't sorry that he went even if we were angry at the timing because we thought we could do better. Sadly with Lerner making the decisions we didn't manage it. Some day in the not that distant future I'm sure Sunderland fans will be thinking exactly the same. One thing is for certain, no matter what went on behind the scenes I will never forgive O'Neill for walking out at the time he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesWithe Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I really hope so Trent... He is a good manager but I hope Sunderland is the club where the wider world see how limited in ability he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 no manager is perfect you know, you don't have to defend every ounce of criticism put against him...Don't know why any attempt to put a counter view based on the actual facts is always interpreted as "defending" a person or point of view, or worse, being in a particular group or camp. The facts are that, since joining Sunderland MON has managed 16 games and made 36 substitutions - an average of about 2.5 per game. Half of those substitutions have been made between 46 and 79 minutes and a third have been 80 minutes plus (that includes the extra time substitutions made in the Middlesbrough replay that helped win the match). That raises questions about the view that MON doesn't make many substitutions and, when he does so, only very late in the game. If it comforts people to repeat these myths about MON, and post about how they are glad he left Villa, as he sweeps Sunderland past us up the table, fine, take what comfort you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Doubt it. He'll jump ship before it gets to that stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 One thing is for certain, no matter what went on behind the scenes I will never forgive O'Neill for walking out at the time he did. Even now that O'Neill has declared that he didn't walk out on his contract, you still don't accept that he was fired. One day there will be a URL for you to treat as confirmation. :winkold: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 If it comforts people to repeat these myths about MON, and post about how they are glad he left Villa, as he sweeps Sunderland past us up the table, fine, take what comfort you can. Surely you wouldn't deny people some of the comfort that you are clearly gaining from Sunderland 'sweeping' past the Villa? Nobody can deny what a superb start he has had at Sunderland, and therefore the excellent job that he has done so far. Of course he inherited a squad that had nine additions during the summer, so were barely settled in. Therefore he had a good template, a virtual clean slate, to work with, unlike the mess that is the squad at Aston Villa. Next season will be AM's opportunity to show whether he can achieve similar success, albeit with a more passing style of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 If it comforts people to repeat these myths about MON, and post about how they are glad he left Villa, as he sweeps Sunderland past us up the table, fine, take what comfort you can. Surely you wouldn't deny people some of the comfort that you are clearly gaining from Sunderland 'sweeping' past the Villa? I can assure you it gives me no comfort whatsoever. It is the bitterest of experiences which makes the rubbish we have had to put up with this season and last all the more hard to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 We all know O'Neill's strengths they can't really be questioned, we all know his faults equally well and they too can't really be questioned. What is there new to say about the man? Sunderland fans will at the moment be enjoying the positives of the strengths of his management, in two or three years I think they will have a more rounded view of him as a manager and understand first hand his limitations. I don't think there is much else to say about him, he did well here but should have done better here. He made some great signings and he made some bloody terrible ones. Most of us would have rather he stayed than have Houllier or McLeish but many of us weren't sorry that he went even if we were angry at the timing because we thought we could do better. Sadly with Lerner making the decisions we didn't manage it. Some day in the not that distant future I'm sure Sunderland fans will be thinking exactly the same. One thing is for certain, no matter what went on behind the scenes I will never forgive O'Neill for walking out at the time he did. Excellently put. We are still stuck with his bloody awful signings for the most part. Over £20m on Cuellar, Warnock, Dunne and Collins on good long contracts and only Carlos looks worth keeping come the end of the season. I won't forgive him either for walking out when he did, we've never got going since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 We are still stuck with his bloody awful signings for the most part. I can see how that impression arises but it is of course relevant that we sold off all his very good signings (errr... and what happened to the money?). I'm not sure you can blame O'Neill for that (although the evidence of this thread suggests people will blame him for anything however ludicrous.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I'm not sure you can blame O'Neill for that (although the evidence of this thread suggests people will blame him for anything however ludicrous.) so we cant blame him for leaving us with some average players? Interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I'm not sure you can blame O'Neill for that (although the evidence of this thread suggests people will blame him for anything however ludicrous.) so we cant blame him for leaving us with some average players? Interesting The rules of English grammar force me to point out you have misunderstood the statement. To make it easier: (a) Martin O'Neill bought some very good players and some not so good players (1) ( All the good ones he bought have been sold off (2) © so the impression might arise that he left us with only poor players - but that is only because all the good ones were sold off (d) You can't blame him for the fact that all the good players he bought were sold off. [(1) This makes him like virtually every other mnanager in the football league (2)And what happened to the money?] Hope that makes it a bit clearer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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