The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

Villa will never be a european winning side without huge money.

Maybe not, but with sensible appointments and sensible financial plans, I am sure we would be doing better, and we might even win some trophies...

Villa could rule Europe with the right man at the helm. Im not saying you can do it without money....But it can be done without spending the mass amounts which some fans seem to think you need.

Its all about assembling the right squad and set of tactics..The tactics will come from the brains within the manager and "his" coaching staff...The right squad selection again comes from the brains of the manager and "his" scouting staff...The FACTS we all know about are that the variety of players to chose from on the world stage is MASSIVE in comparison to how many "top clubs" there are on the circuit. Only a fool would think it cant be done..

Yet in the modern game, it never has been done. Again, you point to Deschamps for example, why is he not dominating Europe? How would he dominate Europe with Villa but not Marseille?

It's like me saying "sign this striker and he can score 50 goals in a league season" ....most people would think I'm crazy and they'd be right. It's not happened before and it never will. Not while teams are spending £50-100+ million per season, paying wages of £200k a week to players.

[sellbydate]

yes but AVFCPOB, if only we had the VISION!!!!!!

there's no point arguing with him mate, just be glad he's not got any say in decisions at villa.

[steaknchips]

It has been done, its just you chose to ignore it...Wenger has kept Arsenal amongst the top clubs on a budget. He has spent nowhere near the amounts Chelsea or City have, yet remains a regular in European competition.

All across Europe and in the UK we have teams reaching different levels with different budgets..Right now we have Newcastle sitting 3rd in the Premiership with players on the their books like Tiote, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, etc good enough to play at Champions league Level, yet bought for peanuts...They have Santon who is young and also looking potentialy good enough to one day be a top player. This is a club ran by an idiot who has tried to sell up and have also only recently been a club playing in the Championship. Its surprising what a little bit of vision can do.

[PauloBarnesi]

I think Arsenal are the exception, not the rule?

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

It has been done, its just you chose to ignore it...Wenger has kept Arsenal amongst the top clubs on a budget. He has spent nowhere near the amounts Chelsea or City have, yet remains a regular in European competition.

All across Europe and in the UK we have teams reaching different levels with different budgets..Right now we have Newcastle sitting 3rd in the Premiership with players on the their books like Tiote, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, etc good enough to play at Champions league Level, yet bought for peanuts...They have Santon who is young and also looking potentialy good enough to one day be a top player. This is a club ran by an idiot who has tried to sell up and have also only recently been a club playing in the Championship. Its surprising what a little bit of vision can do.

Difference is Wenger was already there, he's done a terrific job but he's also spending huge amounts on wages (because he can, because they are doing so well before teams started to really out spend them)

Now to break into top 4, it takes huge money.

We'll see Newcastle end of the season, I'll be shocked if they finish higher than 7th and within 10-15 points of 4th.

[Houlston]

It has been done, its just you chose to ignore it...Wenger has kept Arsenal amongst the top clubs on a budget. He has spent nowhere near the amounts Chelsea or City have, yet remains a regular in European competition.

All across Europe and in the UK we have teams reaching different levels with different budgets..Right now we have Newcastle sitting 3rd in the Premiership with players on the their books like Tiote, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, etc good enough to play at Champions league Level, yet bought for peanuts...They have Santon who is young and also looking potentialy good enough to one day be a top player. This is a club ran by an idiot who has tried to sell up and have also only recently been a club playing in the Championship. Its surprising what a little bit of vision can do.

Yeah and he appointed Pardew and I would lay a shit load of money that had we appointed Pardew before them you'd have had a nervous breakdown.

You mention the likes of Arsenal, and they are a one off, but even they dont dominate Europe as you believe it is possible to do.

Step away from Football Manager you are confusing what is real and what is not.

[steaknchips]

AVFC,

I bring up the closest manager to what Deschamps would be if he joined Villa and you start questioning the wages he spends?

I cant name any other Premiership manager can I because below the top 4 they are all clueless home grown crap, bar Jol who is too old and past it. What can McLeish bring new to the Aston Villa table than what these home grown crap bring? Absolute naff all. Been there, seen it, done it..MON, Pulis, Bruce, Coyne, Warnock, Hughes, Moyes etc they are all the same....The ONLY guy that bought something different to the table is the guy that built his vision into a Premiership club on a budget and surprise surprise its WENGER!

I cant name another top Ligue 1 manager that took a Premiership team to the top on a budget because there is ONLY Wenger...So I have to use him to make my point!

I have never said a change in direction/vision/approach "would" take Villa into Europe again...I said it "could"...The only thing im sure of, is that this same old, same old dosnt work and hasnt for any club on a consistent basis....Yet the change in direction, vision and approach has worked for Arsenal..Its proven!

All we are with McLeish, is your run of the mill average crap...Just like the rest of them...We just look for the scraps off the top 4 table...Appart from Wenger, who came in and had vision and knowledge that spanned further than the English channel...

The reason you think we need huge sums of money, is because that does seem the case with all the managers in the Premiership bar Wenger. So why bother going down that failed route? Why not try and bring in the next, younger Wenger in Deschamps and "just try something different"..?

[Zatman]

Yes you keep coming back to Didier Deschamps who is being criticized by his own board and in 2 games vs a weak Arsenal side his team failed to muster a save from Sczcesny.

Can definitely see him dominating Europe with us

[kayarcee]

AVFC,

I bring up the closest manager to what Deschamps would be if he joined Villa and you start questioning the wages he spends?

I cant name any other Premiership manager can I because below the top 4 they are all clueless home grown crap, bar Jol who is too old and past it. What can McLeish bring new to the Aston Villa table than what these home grown crap bring? Absolute naff all. Been there, seen it, done it..MON, Pulis, Bruce, Coyne, Warnock, Hughes, Moyes etc they are all the same....The ONLY guy that bought something different to the table is the guy that built his vision into a Premiership club on a budget and surprise surprise its WENGER!

I cant name another top Ligue 1 manager that took a Premiership team to the top on a budget because there is ONLY Wenger...So I have to use him to make my point!

I have never said a change in direction/vision/approach "would" take Villa into Europe again...I said it "could"...The only thing im sure of, is that this same old, same old dosnt work and hasnt for any club on a consistent basis....Yet the change in direction, vision and approach has worked for Arsenal..Its proven!

All we are with McLeish, is your run of the mill average crap...Just like the rest of them...We just look for the scraps off the top 4 table...Appart from Wenger, who came in and had vision and knowledge that spanned further than the English channel...

The reason you think we need huge sums of money, is because that does seem the case with all the managers in the Premiership bar Wenger. So why bother going down that failed route? Why not try and bring in the next, younger Wenger in Deschamps and "just try something different"..?

Arsenal may be on a budget relative to Manchester City, but just this past window Wenger spent 52 million pounds on transfer fees (yes, 70 million pounds came in, largely for Fabregas and Nasri).

For a bit of comparison, Aston Villa has purchased four players for 10 million pounds or more (Curtis Davies, including his initial loan fee, James Milner, Stewart Downing and Darren Bent) in the club's entire history. Arsene Wenger did that just this summer, and has purchased 12 players for transfer fees above 10 million in his term as Arsenal manager. So please do spare me the "budget" talk.

Also, Didier Dechamps has purchased 4 players costing more than 10 million pounds (Gignac, Remy, Lucho, and Mbia) in his two and a quarter seasons as Marseille manager, and has spent at a loss each season. To say he's "working on a budget" is risible.

[steaknchips]

AVFC,

I bring up the closest manager to what Deschamps would be if he joined Villa and you start questioning the wages he spends?

I cant name any other Premiership manager can I because below the top 4 they are all clueless home grown crap, bar Jol who is too old and past it. What can McLeish bring new to the Aston Villa table than what these home grown crap bring? Absolute naff all. Been there, seen it, done it..MON, Pulis, Bruce, Coyne, Warnock, Hughes, Moyes etc they are all the same....The ONLY guy that bought something different to the table is the guy that built his vision into a Premiership club on a budget and surprise surprise its WENGER!

I cant name another top Ligue 1 manager that took a Premiership team to the top on a budget because there is ONLY Wenger...So I have to use him to make my point!

I have never said a change in direction/vision/approach "would" take Villa into Europe again...I said it "could"...The only thing im sure of, is that this same old, same old dosnt work and hasnt for any club on a consistent basis....Yet the change in direction, vision and approach has worked for Arsenal..Its proven!

All we are with McLeish, is your run of the mill average crap...Just like the rest of them...We just look for the scraps off the top 4 table...Appart from Wenger, who came in and had vision and knowledge that spanned further than the English channel...

The reason you think we need huge sums of money, is because that does seem the case with all the managers in the Premiership bar Wenger. So why bother going down that failed route? Why not try and bring in the next, younger Wenger in Deschamps and "just try something different"..?

Arsenal may be on a budget relative to Manchester City, but just this past window Wenger spent 52 million pounds on transfer fees (yes, 70 million pounds came in, largely for Fabregas and Nasri).

For a bit of comparison, Aston Villa has purchased four players for 10 million pounds or more (Curtis Davies, including his initial loan fee, James Milner, Stewart Downing and Darren Bent) in the club's entire history. Arsene Wenger did that just this summer, and has purchased 12 players for transfer fees above 10 million in his term as Arsenal manager. So please do spare me the "budget" talk.

Also, Didier Dechamps has purchased 4 players costing more than 10 million pounds (Gignac, Remy, Lucho, and Mbia) in his two and a quarter seasons as Marseille manager, and has spent at a loss each season. To say he's "working on a budget" is risible.

Take a look at Wenger's record;

1st,(double)

2nd,

2nd,

2nd,

1st,(double)

2nd,

1st,

2nd,

----------

4th,

4th,

3rd,

4th,

3rd,

4th,

Notice in his earlier career he had better stats? Did you also notice that the teams he also built in his earlier years also went on incredible unbeaten runs, despite the emergence of mega rich Chelsea?

Notice the transfer finds he once was able to spot have dried up slightly over time? The last couple of season's he started to buy more proven players for more cash? Its because he has spent too long in the UK and English leagues. He dosnt have the edge on the continent he once had..Yes he has scouts, he is still a very high profile name etc But he wouldnt be as clued up as when he 1st arrived on the scene in the Premiership of good unfound players on the continent, or the bargains he once knew and was so well known for finding.

Players like, Henry, Petit, Viera, Anelka, all came from France in his early times at the club and helped build the nucleus of his successful sides. Especially Viera who was the rock in midfield, who Wenger knew from his time playing at Cannes.

Yet which players has McLeish bought in over Summer from his past knowledge of watching players at 1st hand? Hutton is hardly going to set the Premiership alight is he..If Newcastle can find Cabaye etc lurking about on the cheap, I wonder what the likes Deschamps will know about that others have not quite yet spotted? I doubt even Wenger today wouldnt have the knowledge of up to date bargains that Deschamps could possibly find in the ever crowded talented cheaper French market..

[sellbydate]

AVFC,

I bring up the closest manager to what Deschamps would be if he joined Villa and you start questioning the wages he spends?

I cant name any other Premiership manager can I because below the top 4 they are all clueless home grown crap, bar Jol who is too old and past it. What can McLeish bring new to the Aston Villa table than what these home grown crap bring? Absolute naff all. Been there, seen it, done it..MON, Pulis, Bruce, Coyne, Warnock, Hughes, Moyes etc they are all the same....The ONLY guy that bought something different to the table is the guy that built his vision into a Premiership club on a budget and surprise surprise its WENGER!

I cant name another top Ligue 1 manager that took a Premiership team to the top on a budget because there is ONLY Wenger...So I have to use him to make my point!

I have never said a change in direction/vision/approach "would" take Villa into Europe again...I said it "could"...The only thing im sure of, is that this same old, same old dosnt work and hasnt for any club on a consistent basis....Yet the change in direction, vision and approach has worked for Arsenal..Its proven!

All we are with McLeish, is your run of the mill average crap...Just like the rest of them...We just look for the scraps off the top 4 table...Appart from Wenger, who came in and had vision and knowledge that spanned further than the English channel...

The reason you think we need huge sums of money, is because that does seem the case with all the managers in the Premiership bar Wenger. So why bother going down that failed route? Why not try and bring in the next, younger Wenger in Deschamps and "just try something different"..?

Arsenal may be on a budget relative to Manchester City, but just this past window Wenger spent 52 million pounds on transfer fees (yes, 70 million pounds came in, largely for Fabregas and Nasri).

For a bit of comparison, Aston Villa has purchased four players for 10 million pounds or more (Curtis Davies, including his initial loan fee, James Milner, Stewart Downing and Darren Bent) in the club's entire history. Arsene Wenger did that just this summer, and has purchased 12 players for transfer fees above 10 million in his term as Arsenal manager. So please do spare me the "budget" talk.

Also, Didier Dechamps has purchased 4 players costing more than 10 million pounds (Gignac, Remy, Lucho, and Mbia) in his two and a quarter seasons as Marseille manager, and has spent at a loss each season. To say he's "working on a budget" is risible.

Take a look at Wenger's record;

1st,(double)

2nd,

2nd,

2nd,

1st,(double)

2nd,

1st,

2nd,

----------

4th,

4th,

3rd,

4th,

3rd,

4th,

Notice in his earlier career he had better stats? Did you also notice that the teams he also built in his earlier years also went on incredible unbeaten runs, despite the emergence of mega rich Chelsea? Yet now he is starting to struggle slightly?

Notice the transfer finds he once was able to spot have dried up slightly over time? The last couple of season's he started to buy more proven players for more cash? Its because he has spent too long in the UK and English leagues.

one of the funniest things you have ever said.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

It has been done, its just you chose to ignore it...Wenger has kept Arsenal amongst the top clubs on a budget. He has spent nowhere near the amounts Chelsea or City have, yet remains a regular in European competition.

All across Europe and in the UK we have teams reaching different levels with different budgets..Right now we have Newcastle sitting 3rd in the Premiership with players on the their books like Tiote, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, etc good enough to play at Champions league Level, yet bought for peanuts...They have Santon who is young and also looking potentialy good enough to one day be a top player. This is a club ran by an idiot who has tried to sell up and have also only recently been a club playing in the Championship. Its surprising what a little bit of vision can do.

Who is Newcastle manager?

[NowDoINotLikeThat]

think we can all agree McWaaank is rubbish - all knew that beforehand and know it now - and should have never been appointed.

Maybe he will magically stop being rubbish and will have a "road to damascus" conversion into stop being rubbish - in meantime we are in for very long season.

[Wainy316]

Wainy316

Post subject: Posted: Nov 03, 2011 - 08:49 AM

Star Player

Joined: Oct 15, 2005

Posts: 6698

Location: Seoul, South Korea

Status: Offline

Supported VT this year

PieFacE wrote:

AshVilla wrote:

The right manager for Aston Villa will be at the game the weekend and i would pull out all the stops to get him.

Agreed!

I assume you mean Lambert?

Sharp this guy, aint he :-)

Sharp enough to quote posts properly. 8)

[stanthemanisgod]

SnC,

You seem to have a warped view of what Wenger has achieved at Arsenal.

Wenger bought Arsenal's place in the CL by buying players such as Henry and Viera, yes some of it was astute scouting, but also the money did a lot of talking.

Once their CL place was secure, and before the emergence of City it pretty much was, he could afford to take a bigger gamble on his younger players. But then Arsenal were able to attract better younger players because of their status as a CL club, and until recently the regular stream of trophies.

But what they do not spend in transfer fees they definately do spend in wages, so be careful of how you define budget.

But now even the mighty Wenger is being beaten by money, he cant compete with the Utd's, Chelsea's and City's in the domestic league and his star youngsters look to leave to clubs that they can win things at.

I agree with you that a better manager with a wider scouting network would most probably be able to attract a better standard of player to Villa Park. However, as with all managers there will also be a fair share of duff signings, players like Makoun who have European pedigree but cannot adapt to life in the PL.

Also regardless of what you think of Randy, how many managers of the type you so vividly describe were forming an orderly Queue at Randy's office when the job was available?

Finally this view of your that we're a sleeping giant just waiting for our prince charming to propel us to European glary is laughable. Even with the God himself (Deschamps) in charge we'd still struggle to qualify for the Europa. The reason being that the top 6 aren't going to stop doing what they're doing whilst we feed off the scraps from Europes top table.

A top manager is only one factor of a successful club, you also need money, a large fanbase and finally opportunity. Utd took advantage of the formation of the PL and CL. Arsenal took adavntage of the extra CL places when 3rd and 4th were allowed to enter. Chelsea bought their way in when competition was limited. City have just blown everybody out of the water with their spending and are on course to be the dominant team in England and Europe if they continue.

What opportunity is open to us right now, what can this manager exploit to boost our income and therefore our spending power? What can he achieve to make Villa outgrow Villa Park? Which world markets remain untapped that can fund a Villa revolution?

Yes a deschamps with a chairman prepared to back him would make Villa a more attractive team but how can you sit there and guarantee he could make us better than City, Utd, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs. If anything I'd say the level of Spurs is about the best we can hope for, maybe sniping at Liverpool at the very top end.

[Wainy316]

SnC,

You seem to have a warped view of what Wenger has achieved at Arsenal.

Wenger bought Arsenal's place in the CL by buying players such as Henry and Viera, yes some of it was astute scouting, but also the money did a lot of talking.

Erm, Vieira cost 3.5m.

[Wainy316]

Here's a few more:

Petit 2.5m

Anelka 500k

Ljungberg 3m

Toure 150k

Gilberto 4.5m

Clichy 250k

Fabregas Free

Van Persie 2.75m

Song 1m

Pretty impressive if you ask me. Most the people he splashed large sums of money on contributed very little to their success such as Hleb, Arshavin, Reyes, Richard Wright, Jeffers.

[stanthemanisgod]

What was the league record signing when Viera was bought for £3.5m? £12m? £15m?

What wages did he offer him when he signed? How does that compare to other clubs? To our wage structure now let alone back then?

Wenger is good, I dont dispute that but he's still paid decent money for players either in fees or wages, money that Villa doesn't have right now.

SO to use Wenger as the basis for the argument that Deschamps could turn Villa into a dominant team in Europe doesn't wash with me.

[Super-Villan]

Pires and Wiltord weren't cheap. I'm also not sure how it works in a manager's favour that most of his really expensive signings were flops. He still spent that money.

I like Wenger, and he's achieved a lot on smaller budgets than many of the other clubs, but don't be kidded that he hasn't spent an awful lot of money himself.

[Stevo985]

The difference is Wenger got Arsenal to the top at a time where it took (relatively) little money compared to today to get there.

IN the 90s you could do that. I don't think you can now.

Once you're at the top, it's much easier (but still highly commendable) imo to run the team on a tightish budget due to the stature and attraction of the club.

Continuing to be good on a budget is doable these days. but getting there in the first place is not.