James Collins

[Mantis]

I can appreciate more forms of football than a short-passing Barcelona type game that everyone raves about. I liked the fast, direct counter attacking football that we had under MON and I don't see why it wasn't good to watch.

There's more than just the "short passing Barcelona" type.

Each to their own I guess, but personally I got very frustrated at our inability to hold the ball and the amount of times we spent sat deep in our own half defending.

[jacketspuds]

So we need to off load players before signing anyone but we don't appear to want anyone other than Hutton out of the door. Interesting. Me thinks there's a fair amount of shit coming from the media, including Kendrick. We aren't going to say that we want a number of current first team members out of the door as this would disrupt our preseason, especially with the squad out of the UK. Alternatively, maybe PL is undecided in terms of who he will allow to depart and is giving everyone who isn't a turd Scottish RB a chance.

[dudevillaisnice]

Disagree - He must have played half decent as he wouldnt have got a call up to the England squad etc.

Henderson got called up for the England squad so I wouldn't read anything into that personally plus he was hardly first choice it was because of an injury he went in the first place.

It has always been a joke.

He seemed to be badly affected by the shin injury about Feb time I think - and his form deteriated from there.

He has been terrible since he signed, no injury etc excuse will cover this up.

It really is baffling how people give him a chance every season to produce the crap form he has since he signed.. would rather have a much younger better full back in place, Someone who isn't caught out of position every few minutes most teams know Warnock is a poor defender and they target the left side for this specific purpose.

So should we always base an England call-up on a negative in that Jordan Henderson was also called up?

I could equally say Wayne Rooney was called up after a brilliant season!

Its an England call up. None is completely undeserved. Some form of potential will have had to been shown.

Anyway were going slightly off-topic. My point still stands that its probably a positive (based on the last 2 seasons) that Collins and Warnock may go! However, it is undoubted (however much you want to deny it) that they are capable of performing better under the right management and I just think that atm, we are being a tadge naive in thinking that we will automatically replace these guys with anything better.

There is so far nothing to suggest that Clark, Vlaar (should we get him), Lowton, Stevens, Baker or any other unknown prem quantity will prove a better option than what we currently have. At the moment our defence looks weak. Swap Collins for Vlaar (who I don't no much about in all fairness) and it doesnt look all that much stronger if stronger at all.

Misplaced optimism atm in my eyes.

If anything - Lichaj is the 1 Im most confident in. The rest are unknown or have been equally as abysmal as Collins et al

from one extreme to another. I didn't say every player that gets called up is poor it is simply a example that every player called up is not as amazing as you think. Rooney is a quality player comparing to him to Warnock is laughable, I still think he is a poor player even under MON. we need a better fullback and it isn't hard to find better lb than Warnock.

[LoughboroughLion]

I dont want to get my hopes up, until I see it on BBC I will be assuming its nothing. *looks to the Sky and says please*

[Big_John_10]

If MON was a great manager he would've got us more than 6th and a Carling Cup final with the resources he had.

What do you think realistically could have been achieved, who do you think would have managed it, and would they have come to us in the position we were in?

I think under a better manager we could've got top 4 (staying there is another matter) and at the very least won a trophy with the money that was spent.

Did we have more resources than the original sky 4 and spurs and city?

Were we more attractive to players than those 6 clubs?

How many of those clubs started at such a low point than us?

Mon is not a great manager, he is a good one and with what we spent we should have been around the top 6 and challenging.

As for warnock he can't win. You say he's commitment means his reckless but if he wasn't trying 100% or throwing himself into tackles you'd slate him for not caring.

Is it a coincidence the ones who supported houllier seem to be the ones that really slate warnock?

[Daniel]

Mat Kendrick ‏@MatKendrick

Regarding Warnock/Collins/Sunderland thing. I don't know if MON is interested, but I should imagine Villa could be persuaded to do business

[Ads]

O'Neill could certainly have done better in the transfer market.

Just thinking about how much we spent on shite like Harewood and Heskey in fees and wages. It just makes me wonder if we had put that collective cash towards somebody like Bent then we could have maybe bagged a CL spot.

[Ads]

As for Warnock its not about effort its about him being poor. Simple diagonal balls catch him out so often its painful.

[Mantis]

If MON was a great manager he would've got us more than 6th and a Carling Cup final with the resources he had.

What do you think realistically could have been achieved, who do you think would have managed it, and would they have come to us in the position we were in?

I think under a better manager we could've got top 4 (staying there is another matter) and at the very least won a trophy with the money that was spent.

Did we have more resources than the original sky 4 and spurs and city?

Were we more attractive to players than those 6 clubs?

How many of those clubs started at such a low point than us?

Mon is not a great manager, he is a good one and with what we spent we should have been around the top 6 and challenging.

You mention Spurs and City, but City didn't get the Arabs until 2008 and Spurs weren't really a threat to us until 09/10.

There you go then, MON is not a great manager, which was the point I was trying to prove.

As for warnock he can't win. You say he's commitment means his reckless but if he wasn't trying 100% or throwing himself into tackles you'd slate him for not caring.

Is it a coincidence the ones who supported houllier seem to be the ones that really slate warnock?

Him sliding into tackles is one of the reasons why I don't rate him. There's committed and then there's trying too hard.

Last time I checked most of VT didn't support Houllier. Most people on here don't rate Warnock because he's a shit defender.

[Richard]

Mat Kendrick ‏@MatKendrick

Regarding Warnock/Collins/Sunderland thing. I don't know if MON is interested, but I should imagine Villa could be persuaded to do business

I just hope Sunderland can

[coda]

FFS I hope this happens. Get them both booked on the next Megabus to Sunderland.

[Big_John_10]

You mention Spurs and City, but City didn't get the Arabs until 2008 and Spurs weren't really a threat to us until 09/10.

Go and have a look at what those clubs spent during the first 12 months MoN was here.

[Mantis]

You mention Spurs and City, but City didn't get the Arabs until 2008 and Spurs weren't really a threat to us until 09/10.

Go and have a look at what those clubs spent during the first 12 months MoN was here.

And the next 12 months?

[TRS-T]

and at the very least won a trophy with the money that was spent.

Tbf he would have won us a trophy if it wasn't for Phil Dowd :x

[HolteExile]

It's impossible to say that with any degree of certainty.

It would have greatly improved our chances, true.

But most ref's would be reluctant to dish out the red card in the very early stages of a match, especially in a cup final. I don't think Dowd is particularly unusual in that regard. It would take a serious leg busting challenge -a challenge so bad they had little alternative- to force the issue. As it was, there was an element of doubt.

Also, United did actually have a player sent off when they played us at VP just a month prior to that - and they still bossed the game.

[bickster]

*cough* JAMES COLLINS *cough*

[Big_John_10]

You mention Spurs and City, but City didn't get the Arabs until 2008 and Spurs weren't really a threat to us until 09/10.

Go and have a look at what those clubs spent during the first 12 months MoN was here.

And the next 12 months?

You don't think spurs or city spent much money during that period either?

[Richard]

*cough* JAMES COLLINS *cough*

I think you missed the word for at the start of that sentence and then again after collins

[Big_John_10]

Sorry to take it off topic again.

I'll stick to Collins.

I think he'd probably do well at another club.

I don't think any of the defenders were helped by having houllier as manager and by the time Mcleish came confidence was so low it was going to take someone good to do something.

I thought him and baker showed potential together. I think Collins is better when he's the senior defender.

[bickster]

I thought him and baker showed potential together. I think Collins is better when he's the senior defender.

That probably has some merit now, he was a great partnership with Dunne for a while but the last two seasons they seem to have lost the way with each other for whatever reason. One of them needs to go and I suspect it has to be Collins as Dunne simply won't go with a year left on his contract.