Brumerican Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Would you hold up the Old Testament as proof that Jews are bloodthirsty maniacs? Of course not. I'm not defending one Abrahamic sect over another, as far as I'm concerned none of them should exist, but as I said earlier, religion is not the root of the problem, just a useful weapon. I disagree . Their horseshit ideology is very much the root of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Why can we deride and lambaste religion as a whole but when we single out Islam it's Islamophobia? Fear . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B94villa Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 (edited) Why can we deride and lambaste religion as a whole but when we single out Islam it's Islamophobia? That's a fair point, and it's an easy trap to fall into. The point i was trying to make is that if someone said Christians and Jews are responsible it would be deemed anti-Semitic or anti-Christian. It's worth pointing out that the people who make policy and shape the narrative aren't coming at this problem from an Atheistic perspective, usually from a hardline and incredibly right-wing Christian/Jewish one. After all, we only started responding to ISIS when a Christian minority was threatened. Oddly, they weren't a part of the discussion when they were dying from sanctions or air strikes. Edited September 14, 2014 by B94villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B94villa Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Would you hold up the Old Testament as proof that Jews are bloodthirsty maniacs? Of course not. I'm not defending one Abrahamic sect over another, as far as I'm concerned none of them should exist, but as I said earlier, religion is not the root of the problem, just a useful weapon. I disagree . Their horseshit ideology is very much the root of the problem. Then why hasn't the Muslim world always looked like it does now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Would you hold up the Old Testament as proof that Jews are bloodthirsty maniacs? Of course not. I'm not defending one Abrahamic sect over another, as far as I'm concerned none of them should exist, but as I said earlier, religion is not the root of the problem, just a useful weapon. I disagree . Their horseshit ideology is very much the root of the problem. Then why hasn't the Muslim world always looked like it does now? Doing stupid things for stupid reasons ? It has . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Why can we deride and lambaste religion as a whole but when we single out Islam it's Islamophobia? That's a fair point, and it's an easy trap to fall into. The point i was trying to make is that if someone said Christians and Jews are responsible it would be deemed anti-Semitic or anti-Christian. It's worth pointing out that the people who make policy and shape the narrative aren't coming at this problem from an Atheistic perspective, usually from a hardline and incredibly right-wing Christian/Jewish one. After all, we only started responding to ISIS when a Christian minority was threatened. Oddly, they weren't a part of the discussion when they were dying from sanctions or air strikes. I take your point on the right wing view point. Religion just makes me pretty angry on the whole. Generalisations are a problem outside of Islamophobia too though. There have been Jewish businesses attack in response to Gaza, Christianity has been called a horrible kiddy fiddling religion, these IS folk would happily cut my head off for what they view as crimes against them from my government. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 There are over 1 billion muslims in the world, half of them aren't practicing, there are around t 5,000 active IS fighters, most of them ex soliders and a small portion are from other countries (like the uk). Those soliders are from wars recently, starring the UK and USA. not only is that 5000 an absolutely tiny number (think Lincoln FC's weekly attendances) but most of that 5000 have been affected directly by UK and USA conflicts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I'm more concerned about the rabble turning on Muslims than Isis, or Isil, or whatever they are going by now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 There are over 1 billion muslims in the world, half of them aren't practicing, there are around t 5,000 active IS fighters, most of them ex soliders and a small portion are from other countries (like the uk). Those soliders are from wars recently, starring the UK and USA. not only is that 5000 an absolutely tiny number (think Lincoln FC's weekly attendances) but most of that 5000 have been affected directly by UK and USA conflicts. Mate I don't know where you've got 5,000 from but it's wrong. They've got at least 30,000 under arms but that's probably closer to 50,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I'm more concerned about the rabble turning on Muslims than Isis, or Isil, or whatever they are going by now. Yes, quite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B94villa Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Doing stupid things for stupid reasons ? It has .Doing stupid things for stupid reasons is a pretty catch-all description of humanity generally, so not sure how helpful that is for the purposes of this discussion. I think you know what I'm talking about though. If Islam specifically means that Muslims are impossible to live peacefully alongside, how to you explain the medieval exodus of European Jews to the Maghreb when fleeing Christian persecution? Or the Ottoman administration being made up of highly educated Christians and Jews? Or that Sharia law was one of the first to recognise a woman's right to divorce an abusive husband? Even Mohammed allowed a thriving Jewish community to establish itself in Medina (admittedly it didn't end well, again for political not religious reasons). All this at a time when the enlightened Christian kingdoms of Europe bathed once a month, burnt the mentally ill at the stake for witchcraft and believed that polyphony was the work of Satan. The obvious criticism of this is that these are historical and not current examples. However, they are examples of what a unified and largely secular Islamic society could look like. Most of the conflicts we see today that are held up as proof of these people's barbarism are the result of artificial borders created with no regard for the religious, cultural and tribal affinities of the people who live within them. This is not an accident, it is an age old Imperial trick which can be seen all over the world that serves a crucial purpose in keeping the local populations divided while they cast their eyes on the larger geopolitical prize, whether that be trade routes in previous centuries or oil and the "energy corridor" currently. That is so say nothing of decades of active clandestine involvement in destabilising any government or movement that doesn't kowtow to whatever measures international financial interests deem fit to impose on them. Fast forward to the present. Even crazy old Iran, with all it's death to the west posturing and rogue state status, seems more interested in avoiding a nuclear holocaust than the self appointed world policeman of the United States. They recently put to the UN a motion that would see all fissile material put into a central independent bank with a regulatory body responsible for loaning it out and ensuring proper use. The US and Israel vetoed the idea. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I'm more concerned about the rabble turning on Muslims than Isis, or Isil, or whatever they are going by now. You can hate Islam and all that it stands for but still get along with Muslims just for the record ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I'm more concerned about the rabble turning on Muslims than Isis, or Isil, or whatever they are going by now. You can hate Islam and all that it stands for but still get along with Muslims just for the record ! "Hey Abdul, I despise everything about your spiritual belief system. Wanna grab a pint?" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendelc Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I don't think Abdul drinks pints mate . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I'm more concerned about the rabble turning on Muslims than Isis, or Isil, or whatever they are going by now. You can hate Islam and all that it stands for but still get along with Muslims just for the record ! "Hey Abdul, I despise everything about your spiritual belief system. Wanna grab a pint?" I hate racism but I have racist friends . I hate small queef but am friends with a lot of supporters! Its fine to hate ideas but you have to make allowances for the fallible humans who believe that bollocks ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I don't think Abdul drinks pints mate . Cultural stereotypist! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Why not just disagree with ideas, rather than hating them? Hate is a very strong word; it has justifiably negative associations. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 I'm more concerned about the rabble turning on Muslims than Isis, or Isil, or whatever they are going by now. You can hate Islam and all that it stands for but still get along with Muslims just for the record ! "Hey Abdul, I despise everything about your spiritual belief system. Wanna grab a pint?" I hate racism but I have racist friends . I hate small queef but am friends with a lot of supporters! Its fine to hate ideas but you have to make allowances for the fallible humans who believe that bollocks ! I know man, I agree 100%, I was just taking the piss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Why not just disagree with ideas, rather than hating them? Hate is a very strong word; it has justifiably negative associations. Hate is subjective ... I usually hate most things I disagree with and that is just another of our species flaws ! I am sat in my pants hating shit.. I am not chopping the heads off of things I disagree with ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted September 14, 2014 Share Posted September 14, 2014 Why not just disagree with ideas, rather than hating them? Hate is a very strong word; it has justifiably negative associations. The subjugation of women to the point of gang rape or public stoning as state sanctioned judicial punishment often for crimes committed by the woman's male relatives is hard not to hate, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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