TrentVilla Posted July 21, 2014 Moderator Share Posted July 21, 2014 I don't think religion even comes into it for most people in regards the events in Israel or Palestine. People who assume criticism of Israeli to be born out of anti semi toms really couldn't be more wrong. Most people are just against the slaughter of children and civilians of any nationality or race regardless of which sky fairy they believe in. Agree with that, but there is however an issue of people attacking synagogues/mosques in response to atrocities carried out by jews/muslims in distant countries, assuming that all people of the same religion support and share responsibility for these acts, which is what I think is Ismail's point. Perhaps, although I took it as being a reference to this thread following the last few pages rather than a comment on wider society which as you say has its own issues with idiots, ignorance and intolerance. Though I think such actions and events are far less about a reaction to current events and more a reflection of more deep rooted racism being given an outlet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 There have been real problems with ambulances getting to all the injured and dying, because of continued shelling. I see the Israelis have now produced their own thoughtful solution to this problem. They have shelled the Al Aqsa hospital. No need for ambulances and transporting the newly injured, because they are already in the hospital. Also, if they can take out the hospital completely, that would remove the point of other ambulance journeys altogether - nowhere to take them to. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/20/israel-using-flechette-shells-in-gaza Israel using flechette shells in Gaza Palestinian human rights group accuses Israel military of using shells that spray out thousands of tiny and potentially lethal darts Share 20455 10 inShare111 Email Harriet Sherwood in Jerusalem theguardian.com, Sunday 20 July 2014 12.40 BST An image provided by the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights of darts from a flechette shell it says the Israeli military fired in Gaza last week. The Israeli military is using flechette shells, which spray out thousands of tiny and potentially lethal metal darts, in its military operation in Gaza. Six flechette shells were fired towards the village of Khuzaa, east of Khan Younis, on 17 July, according to the Palestinian Centre for Human Rights. Nahla Khalil Najjar, 37, suffered injuries to her chest, it said. PCHR provided a picture of flechettes taken by a fieldworker last week. The Israel Defence Forces (IDF) did not deny using the shells in the conflict. "As a rule, the IDF only employs weapons that have been determined lawful under international law, and in a manner which fully conforms with the laws of armed conflict," a spokesperson said in response to a request for specific comment on the deployment of flechettes. B'Tselem, an Israeli human rights organisation, describes a flechette shell as "an anti-personnel weapon that is generally fired from a tank. The shell explodes in the air and releases thousands of metal darts 37.5mm in length, which disperse in a conical arch 300 metres long and about 90 metres wide". The munitions are not prohibited under international humanitarian law, but according to B'Tselem, "other rules of humanitarian law render their use in the Gaza Strip illegal. One of the most fundamental principles is the obligation to distinguish between those who are involved and those who are not involved in the fighting, and to avoid to the extent possible injury to those who are not involved. Deriving from this principle is the prohibition of the use of an imprecise weapon which is likely to result in civilian injuries." A image taken in 2009 of darts from a flechette shell embedded in a wall in Gaza. Photograph: Ben Curtis/AP The legality of flechette munitions was upheld by the Israeli supreme court in 2002, and according to an Israeli military source, they are particularly effective against enemy fighters operating in areas covered by vegetation. The source said a number of armies around the world deploy flechette shells, and that they were intended solely for use against legitimate military targets in accordance with international law. The IDF has deployed flechette shells in Gaza and Lebanon before. B'Tselem has documented the deaths of nine Palestinians in Gaza from flechettes in 2001 and 2002. Flechettes have also killed and wounded dozens of civilians, including women and children, in conflicts between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon. The Israeli military deployed artillery shells containing white phosphorous in densely populated areas of Gaza during Operation Cast Lead in 2008 and 2009, causing scores of deaths and extensive burns. It initially issued a categorical denial of reports of the use of white phosphorous, but later admitted it, saying the weapon was only used to create smokescreens. Human Rights Watch said its use of the munitions in Operation Cast Lead was indiscriminate and evidence of war crimes. In response to a legal challenge, the IDF said last year it would "avoid the use in built-up areas of artillery shells containing white phosphorus, with two narrow exceptions." The exceptions were not disclosed. Israel dropping phosphorous bombs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LxYoungAVFC Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 (edited) I just don't get how Israel are allowed to get away with this. Because the bias US-Goverment want to try out their anti Missile system they borrowed Israel? Edit:I think borrowed is the wrong word Lent? Edited July 21, 2014 by LxYoungAVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 At last a bit of perspective. Thanks, Washington Post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Shelling refugee camps now. And a video doing the rounds showing a Palestinian searching among the ruins for his family, shot by a sniper, then again shot as he lies wounded on the ground. But Cameron has told the Commons that he's spoken to Netanyahu and urged the need for restraint, so that's ok, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 A piece written by an Israeli Jew, About Gaza. Nothing has changed since, and will never change until you make it happen. FREE PALESTINE! Boycott Israel! Consider, for example, this passage: I hated Gaza and its inhabitants. Everything in the amputated town reminded me of failed pictures painted in grey by a sick man. Yes, I would send my mother and my brother's widow and her children a meagre sum to help them to live, but I would liberate myself from this last tie too, there in green California, far from the reek of defeat which for seven years had filled my nostrils. The sympathy which bound me to my brother's children, their mother and mine would never be enough to justify my tragedy in taking this perpendicular dive. It mustn't drag me any further down than it already had. I must flee! ...When I went on holiday in June and assembled all my possessions, longing for the sweet departure, the start towards those little things which give life a nice, bright meaning, I found Gaza just as I had known it, closed like the introverted lining of a rusted snail-shell thrown up by the waves on the sticky, sandy shore by the slaughter-house. ...When I arrived my late brother's wife met me there and asked me, weeping, if I would do as her wounded daughter, Nadia, in Gaza hospital wished and visit her that evening. Do you know Nadia, my brother's beautiful thirteen-year-old daughter? ..."Nadia! I've brought you presents from Kuwait, lots of presents. I'll wait till you can leave your bed, completely well and healed, and you'll come to my house and I'll give them to you. I've bought you the red trousers you wrote and asked me for. Yes, I've bought them." It was a lie, born of the tense situation, but as I uttered it I felt that I was speaking the truth for the first time. Nadia trembled as though she had an electric shock and lowered her head in a terrible silence. I felt her tears wetting the back of my hand. "Say something, Nadia! Don't you want the red trousers?" She lifted her gaze to me and made as if to speak, but then she stopped, gritted her teeth and I heard her voice again, coming from faraway."Uncle!" She stretched out her hand, lifted the white coverlet with her fingers and pointed to her leg, amputated from the top of the thigh. Is this passage from 2014? 2012? Perhaps 2009? No. These excerpts are from Ghassan Kanafani's 1956 story, Letter from Gaza. The bloody incident referred to in the story is Israel's shelling of downtown gaza with 120mm mortars in April 1956. The Israelis claimed Egypt's military (then in control of Gaza) had fortified positions inside the city. Only decades later did Col. M. Bar-On, then General Dayan's chief of staff, admitted that it was a lie: there was a deliberate command to bomb downtown Gaza regardless of military targets (h/t Dr. Yehuda Shenhav-Shaharabani, who uploaded a Hebrew translation of this story and the context last week) We need to stop them. FREE PALESTINE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meath_Villan Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 Need to send in a un peacekeeping force maybe ? or would that do anything ? .......No matter what side of the fence you sit on this needs to stop 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TrentVilla Posted July 21, 2014 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted July 21, 2014 I find it quite staggering the way the world almost turns a blind eye to what Israel is doing, just staggering. Targeting hospitals and ambulances, snippers shooting civilians, it is truly disgusting. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 israel have a lot of power and influence, terrorism is terrorism wether its coming from muslims,jews or whoever. its easy to see why the muslim world hate israel, terrible behaviour. i can see both sides point of view though, it will never end until there is a complete apocolypse in that part of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 I find it quite staggering the way the world almost turns a blind eye to what Israel is doing, just staggering. Targeting hospitals and ambulances, snippers shooting civilians, it is truly disgusting.If there were a prize for summing up this conflict in the fewest words on this thread, this would be my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 And a video doing the rounds showing a Palestinian searching among the ruins for his family, shot by a sniper, then again shot as he lies wounded on the ground. Is that real though? I remember the outrage from a few years back when the Wikileaks site appeared to show a US helicopter gunning down supposedly unarmed men. Then the unedited version was shown later that cast an entirely different light on proceedings. That's not to say that what's going on isn't disgraceful, but I'd be careful about accepting at face value a video that contains the line "editing by the International Solidarity Movement". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 21, 2014 Moderator Share Posted July 21, 2014 And a video doing the rounds showing a Palestinian searching among the ruins for his family, shot by a sniper, then again shot as he lies wounded on the ground. Is that real though? I remember the outrage from a few years back when the Wikileaks site appeared to show a US helicopter gunning down supposedly unarmed men. Then the unedited version was shown later that cast an entirely different light on proceedings. That's not to say that what's going on isn't disgraceful, but I'd be careful about accepting at face value a video that contains the line "editing by the International Solidarity Movement". Fair point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 21, 2014 Share Posted July 21, 2014 And a video doing the rounds showing a Palestinian searching among the ruins for his family, shot by a sniper, then again shot as he lies wounded on the ground. Is that real though? I remember the outrage from a few years back when the Wikileaks site appeared to show a US helicopter gunning Dean supposedly unarmed men. Then the unedited version was shown later that cast an entirely different light on proceedings. That's not to say that what's going on isn't disgraceful, but I'd be careful about accepting at face value a video that contains the line "editing by the International Solidarity Movement".It's a valid question. There's a good piece by Paul Mason on the role of social media in keeping the old media honest, http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/impact-social-media-israelgaza-conflict/1182 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 22, 2014 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2014 So Hammas claims to have an Israeli soldier, Israel denies it then says 24 hours later one is missing assumed dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanishVillan Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 israel have a lot of power and influence, terrorism is terrorism wether its coming from muslims,jews or whoever. Bit more complicated than that imo. For the first few years of WW2 danish resistance were called terrorists too. By the occupiers and our government. Now we give them medals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 22, 2014 Moderator Share Posted July 22, 2014 israel have a lot of power and influence, terrorism is terrorism wether its coming from muslims,jews or whoever. Bit more complicated than that imo. For the first few years of WW2 danish resistance were called terrorists too. By the occupiers and our government. Now we give them medals. I agree the boundary between terrorist and freedom fighter is often blurred and the distinction is all too often down to perspective. My own definition though, which I think works is that if a group is fighting a state and state forces it is legitimate for some to consider them freedom fighters even if that view isn't shared by all. However, whenever innocent civilians are intentionally targeted then I don't think any group, whatever the legitimacy of their cause can be considered anything other than terrorists. If Israel is intentionally targeting civilians or civilian facilities such as hospitals that in my view is state terrorism just as Hammas firing rockets at Israeli cities is terrorism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 The head of the Gaza Community Mental Health Programme has had 28 members of his family murdered in this butchery. Here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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