Bolitics The New Condem Government

[avfc89]

Broken Country - That is hogwash, I've seen social aspects improve immensely in the last 13 years under Labour or Liebour (I know you like that name)

[thetrees]

Broken Country - That is hogwash, I've seen social aspects improve immensely in the last 13 years under Labour or Liebour (I know you like that name)

I am trying to envisage improved 'social aspects' but can't imagine what they are. They sound as though they were expensive though

:winkold:

[Awol]

The Lib Dems are on board because all political posturing aside they recognise what needs to be done to put things right. By acting like grown ups they are actually increasing their credibility - in my eyes at least.

If they pull out now before the labour morons even have a leader (let alone any ideas about how to fix the mess they made) and cause a general election then I can't see the voters thanking them for it - apart from those whose 13 year taxpayer funded holiday is about to grind to a halt.

All kudos to Clegg and Co, when confronted with the reality of government they've signed off on doing the right thing, however unpopular it may prove in the short term. And really, what's the alternative, Ed Balls? The Millismug brothers?? Diane Abbott???

[peterms]

The Lib Dems are on board because all political posturing aside they recognise what needs to be done to put things right. By acting like grown ups they are actually increasing their credibility - in my eyes at least.

If they pull out now before the labour morons even have a leader (let alone any ideas about how to fix the mess they made) and cause a general election then I can't see the voters thanking them for it - apart from those whose 13 year taxpayer funded holiday is about to grind to a halt.

All kudos to Clegg and Co, when confronted with the reality of government they've signed off on doing the right thing, however unpopular it may prove in the short term. And really, what's the alternative, Ed Balls? The Millismug brothers?? Diane Abbott???

Do you not think that the tory strategy, such as it is, is to put forward a totally mad position while proclaiming it in "the national interest" (ie suits the short-term interests of SamCam's current dinner guests), which will force the Libs either to come quietly (so they are shackled for the next 5 years), or else rebel (so Cameron goes for an election of the basis of having been sold out, hoping for a clear majority?

[meregreen]

The Lib Dems are on board because all political posturing aside they recognise what needs to be done to put things right. By acting like grown ups they are actually increasing their credibility - in my eyes at least.

Really. Should have gone to Specsavers :shock:

[drat01]

Broken Britain is a myth perpetuated by the Tory led media and picked up as some sort of excuse for any ultra action that the ConDem's in particular want to undertake.

The LibDem's joined with the Tory party to form the ConDem's because of

a) lies desire for power c) a leadership that once were members of the Tory party :-)

Labour Moron's? - Oh dear Jon :-)

Clegg and Co. no longer have any kudos either with the members of their old party or the electorate, they have been shown up for what they really are. We expected Cameron and Osborne to show their reliance on Thatcherism ideas and they have delivered without fail. The reality of this gvmt is ooozing out straight away - changes of the constitution to suit their own aims and not allow dissent, raising VAT, hitting benefits, avoiding purges on Tax avoidance, errors and misjudgements on a virtually daily basis. The Con part of the new party are littered with people who are hiding behind the Dem's to try and deflect criticism away from their inability and inexperience.

Jon - yes they are alternatives, just because you don't like them means **** all really - the link you put for Abbott is that in some way supposed to be a reason for not talking about the ConDem's. Amazing how one of the stock replies when Labour were in power was we could not talk about the opposition but now that seems to be the only way - I feel the H word coming on again

This Gvmt must be on for some sort of record though for screwing things up both in reality and in public opinion in the shortest time. Can't wait for each day and another indication of their lies, hypocrisy and inability to govern

[ender4]

I've never liked the Liberal party, thought they were all wooly & full of nonsense.

I have been very impressed with them in govt, they do seem to have grown up & are doing what is right rather than what is popular.

i would now think about voting for them in the future.

[bickster]

All we have in this country now are three Tory parties

[meregreen]

I've never liked the Liberal party, thought they were all wooly & full of nonsense.

I have been very impressed with them in govt, they do seem to have grown up & are doing what is right rather than what is popular.

i would now think about voting for them in the future.

How much did the Daily Mail pay you to post that.

[peterms]

I've never liked the Liberal party, thought they were all wooly & full of nonsense.

I have been very impressed with them in govt, they do seem to have grown up & are doing what is right rather than what is popular.

i would now think about voting for them in the future.

Laugh, or cry? Undecided, here.

[ender4]

I've never liked the Liberal party, thought they were all wooly & full of nonsense.

I have been very impressed with them in govt, they do seem to have grown up & are doing what is right rather than what is popular.

i would now think about voting for them in the future.

How much did the Daily Mail pay you to post that.

lol - its true (& without payment).

i always thought they just spouted populist do-gooder crap, but how wrong i was.

[Ads]

I am staggered that such an apparent informed decision can be made on the future of Lib Dems in what is a little over a month into the coalition.

[leviramsey]

All we have in this country now are three Tory parties

I would actually go so far as to argue that there are three Liberal parties (though that Liberalism may come via Thatcherism for at least two of them).

[MrDuck]

All we have in this country now are three Tory parties

You think that's bad? Here in Oz we now have a ginger welsh woman in charge.

[Awol]

Do you not think that the tory strategy, such as it is, is to put forward a totally mad position while proclaiming it in "the national interest" (ie suits the short-term interests of SamCam's current dinner guests)

I don't agree with the premise that the actions they have taken so far are utterly mad, quite the opposite in fact. The fact that the meeting of the G20 two days ago had all of the worlds major economic players agreeing to halve their deficits in three years is a complete vindication of the position taken by both parties in the Coalition.

Ideologically I'd expect those of a left wing persuasion to oppose any push to replace the State with more personal responsibility, but I don't view the aim of the Coalition as a bad thing in itself.

...which will force the Libs either to come quietly (so they are shackled for the next 5 years), or else rebel (so Cameron goes for an election of the basis of having been sold out, hoping for a clear majority?

I think the outcome of of the Lib Dems walking out would be just as you describe but that's because most people realise they are currently doing the right thing. As I've already said by sitting tight and sharing responsibility for difficult decisions the Lib Dems are showing themselves to be grown up and responsible leaders, not populist idiots like that gibbering tool Ed Balls.

Labour Moron's? - Oh dear Jon

To be clear that was a reference to the PLP, NOT anyone on here.

Clegg and Co. no longer have any kudos either with the members of their old party or the electorate, they have been shown up for what they really are.

In your opinion... As Ads has said I think it will take considerably longer than one month for their constituency to take a more rounded view the Lib Dem performance in Government. The left of their party will instinctively recoil from this Coalition and as Snowy and Levi said, it may ultimately result in another split. If it does then it just shows that the coalition that is the Lib Dem party itself was never really more than an effective pressure group that cracked when faced with the reality of Government. Good job they didn't win the election eh?

That said they are the minority party in a Tory led Government so a Lib Dem voter who thought a slack handful of MP's would mean the coalition implementing their manifesto in full isn't being very realistic - after all they did come last in the popular vote. I don't think they'd have had a great deal of influence if they'd climbed into bed with Labour either.

However one notable Lib Dem success is steering the coalition toward the long term aim of raising the income tax threshold to £10K. Would they have managed that with the party that abolished the 10p tax rate and persecuted the poor?

Jon - yes they are alternatives, just because you don't like them means **** all really - the link you put for Abbott is that in some way supposed to be a reason for not talking about the ConDem's.

Of course I'm not trying to say we can't talk about the Coalition, equally we can have a look at the viability of the alternative. As a potential Labour leader, the link I posted for Diane Abbott is there an example of the quality of that alternative - dogshit basically.

Amazing how one of the stock replies when Labour were in power was we could not talk about the opposition but now that seems to be the only way - I feel the H word coming on again

No, you used to demand to know what the Tories should be doing about the economic crisis when they hadn't seen the nations books for 13 years and only had Brown's misleading statements, manipulated figures and flat out lies to rely on. I'm looking at the people standing for the Labour leadership and asking whether any of them have potential as individuals to lead successfully (i.e, a viable alternative to the Coalition), which they don't imo.

This Gvmt must be on for some sort of record though for screwing things up both in reality and in public opinion in the shortest time.

Any evidence of that? What have they screwed up exactly?

[drat01]

Jon they have screwed up a lot - broken promises (i.e. lies), hypocrisy, raising VAT etc etc

This morning we have the Police saying that front line services - officers on the beat - will have to be cut

Spending cuts mean police numbers 'not sustainable'

Current police numbers are not "sustainable" in the face of budget cuts, a senior officer will warn later.

President of the Association of Chief Police Officers Sir Hugh Orde will tell a conference it is "misleading in the extreme" to claim otherwise.

But he will urge ministers to make structural reforms, rather than "salami slicing" the police to save money.

The home secretary will tell forces they will no longer have to meet a set of minimum standards created by Labour.

Theresa May and Sir Hugh will address senior officers from England, Wales and Northern Ireland at Acpo's annual conference in Manchester on Tuesday.

On the beat

The BBC's home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said ministers had so far skirted around the question of whether budget cuts would hit police numbers.

But he said Sir Hugh was now addressing the issue and seemed to be saying that they would.

To suggest the size of the police service is sustainable, Sir Hugh will say, is "misleading in the extreme... quite simply it is not".

He will say that a balance must be struck between the "understandable demand" for more officers on the streets and the "less visible, but equally critical" duties they perform.

Continue reading the main story

I am confident that colleagues will work tirelessly to achieve savings by collaborating

Sir Hugh Orde Association of Chief Police Officers

The Acpo president will also say that chief constables face "hard choices" over where to make savings and the government must take the lead.

"It also falls to us to point out that the consequence of approaching structural reform in an uncoordinated way is that we will see a variety of approaches across the country depending on many factors," he will say.

"I am confident that colleagues will work tirelessly to achieve savings by collaborating, but remain of the view that there is more potential if this is centrally led in a more strategic way."

He will say that forces may look to merge units and back-office functions, or share expensive equipment, but will warn that the idea of police force mergers is unpopular with voters who fear losing their "local" police.

Speaking after Sir Hugh, the home secretary will announce plans to cut police bureaucracy by scrapping Labour's 10-point Policing Pledge, which includes commitments to respond quickly to calls and keep victims informed about their case.

Force 'independence'

Sir Hugh will also ask the government to give more detail on how plans to introduce locally-elected police commissioners will work.

"There are many mixed views on whether some form of locally-elected element adds value or not," he will say.

"My position remains the same: the test is reconciling it with operational independence for policing.

"Squaring that circle is a matter for government, but in this world of hard choices, we have an absolute right to clarity on how this system will work."

Last week, Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Stephenson said his force would "shrink" as a result of budget cuts.

Basically the Gvmt has already failed on key promises / bribes that it offered the electorate. The convenience of the coalition was to pander to ego's of Clegg and Cameron and the cronies that follow them. Core principles are being dropped, Clegg if he had any sort of honour, and his actions towards the Sheffield schemes show that he has none whatsoever, would say the coalition party is not working lets disband it and return to a minority Gvmt and we can then chose which policies we agree with. His desire to be part of the Tory machine and lure of power means that he will not do that. Cameron and Osborne will continue to implement Thatcher based ideas and the result of that will be bad for the country as a whole with area outside the south east and the poorest hit hardest.

[tonyh29]

It's that word again :-) ... But since we are using it tell us , how did you vote in the referendem on the Euro treaty that was promised in the labour party mannifesto

so now we've established that politicans of all paties lie why don't we move on to something else

[drat01]

Tony it was not promised - read the manifesto :-)

Basically nearly ALL politicians are liars I agree - there are some who are not - but the point is the points put forward and argued by the Cons and the Dems are now being ignored. As Jon said earlier, many who voted LibDem have now seen their votes ignored. Many who voted Tory on the back of Cameron and Osborne's promises of no VAT increase for example, within days have seen this promise broken. That was an explicit statement by Cameron and Osborne.

All of the major points in the leaders debates have been proven to be lies it seems. This coalition is based on lies and broken promises - any marriage cannot survive on that and many will feel cheated.

[snowychap]

Many who voted Tory on the back of Cameron and Osborne's promises of no VAT increase for example, within days have seen this promise broken. That was an explicit statement by Cameron and Osborne.

I still fail to see where they explicitly said that VAT would not rise. Even the Lib Dems, who were the ones who really campaigned on the issue in the election, did not explicitly rule it out. The other two were pretty careful about what they said and how they phrased it.

They said, before the election, that their plans to reduce the deficit did not involve a VAT rise (something which I don't believe, by the way) in a rather calculated way so that they could say afterwards, "Everything's much worse than we were told, so we've got to raise VAT."

So, the lie, in my view, was Cameron saying, "Our plans don’t involve an increase in VAT."

Then again, I'm sure one can find something pretty similar said by Gordo/Darling/Byrne or whoever and that VAT would have risen (maybe not to 20%) under a Labour government.

[Awol]

They haven't screwed up at all, Ian. It boils down to this, unpopular cuts that in an ideal world would be avoided have to be made in order to right the economy. Labour went on a decade long bender with the national wallet, spent the cash, the bank loans, the plastic, et al. Now we've finally sobered up and found oursleves lying in a ditch covered in puke and we have to make some tough decisions to clean up our act. It's not great but there is no realistic alternative, which is why the G20 have endorsed the programme laid out by Osborne and are taking similar measures themselves.

If you want to blame someone then blame those who created this mess, not those trying to clean it up.