Bolitics The New Condem Government

[MakemineVanilla]

[CVByrne]

Yes it is . The Tories claim that our benefits act as a magnet for european scroungers. Yet it would appear that countries that have higher payments attract fewer people. Doesn't, quite fit in with the Ukip pleasing bullshit that Cameron spouts. I find it very relevant.

 

Exactly, there are large communities of immigrants in the UK that date back decades and more. There are other factors bringing people to the UK. Family ties must form a large reason people come here. Combined with the economy being strong, growth is strong so there are more opportunities now.

 

This is clearly why people are coming here and not going to Ireland where our Welfare rates a not just higher, but massively higher than the uk. Weekly job seekers benefit is €182 in Ireland for example. Welfare makes up 40% of the entire budget for example.

 

I personally believe in equality. People are individuals and trying to group them based on their nationality is racist. This is being used as a political tool by UKIP to win votes, which is forcing the Torys to move more right to defend their base.

 

All of this is political, none looks at the simple stats. Immigrants are net contributors to the UK. But I'm sure Torys would like to treat Irish, Germans, Scandinavians, Canadians etc.. not in their blanket term immigrants.  

 

The political system here in the UK is weak, Labour lack convition and credibility. I wouldn't trust them to run the economy of the country correctly. The Torys are too right wing, anti European and remind me of Fiana Fail in Ireland, achieve reelection by whatever means.

 

The problem is in all these politicalgamesthere is no gain for the electorate but there are plenty of people who suffer and will suffer. 

 

I dislike it all.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

As soon as the public started getting a little angry toward the mega wealthy, the conversation changed to blaming immigrants and the EU.

[meregreen]

It should be noted that cross border arrangements involving benefits are in most cases reciprocal. So any reduction in entitlements here will also potentially affect our own welfare security if we choose to live and work abroad. The flow of people is not just one way.

[Risso]

It should be noted that cross border arrangements involving benefits are in most cases reciprocal. So any reduction in entitlements here will also potentially affect our own welfare security if we choose to live and work abroad. The flow of people is not just one way.

 

I'm pretty certain that a million people from the UK haven't moved over to live in Poland and Bulgaria.

 

"People are individuals and trying to group them based on their nationality is racist."

 

Of course it isn't, that's ridiculous.

[Eames]

 

It should be noted that cross border arrangements involving benefits are in most cases reciprocal. So any reduction in entitlements here will also potentially affect our own welfare security if we choose to live and work abroad. The flow of people is not just one way.

 

I'm pretty certain that a million people from the UK haven't moved over to live in Poland and Bulgaria.

 

"People are individuals and trying to group them based on their nationality is racist."

 

Of course it isn't, that's ridiculous.

 

Agreed. Wrong -ism there.  

 

National identity does not equate to race. "English" is not race, neither is "Scottish" "Irish" or "Welsh"

[CVByrne]

 

It should be noted that cross border arrangements involving benefits are in most cases reciprocal. So any reduction in entitlements here will also potentially affect our own welfare security if we choose to live and work abroad. The flow of people is not just one way.

 

I'm pretty certain that a million people from the UK haven't moved over to live in Poland and Bulgaria.

 

"People are individuals and trying to group them based on their nationality is racist."

 

Of course it isn't, that's ridiculous.

 

 

 

A governments stance on saying the immigrants from Eastern Europe are essentially not welcome and are drain on the UK welfare system breeds resentment towards people from those countries. Which will cause more people to have preconceptions about a person based on their nationality. This I believe is unhealthy, and to a degree fosters racisim.

 

Two of my Friends are married to Polish women, like many people from Poland they moved to Ireland shorly after Poland joine dthe EU. One is a Physiotherapist, the other is a qualified Accountant. I'm glad Ireland was a more accepting country to immigrants, owed a lot to our long past of an entire generation emmigrating to the US in the 70's and 80's.

 

We said of the Polish back in 2005, it's what the Irish used to be like. Hard working. People came to find a better life, why shouldn't they?

 

The problem really stems from the fact that employers now can hire a worker of superior quality for the same rate than he or she would have had if UK's borders were closed to Easter Europe. This boosts the productivity of the country as a whole.

 

The downside is that bottom of the barrel lazy bums of society are not going to be able find work due to this competition. While also some of the lazy bums from other countries will come here to try get some better welfare too.

 

But when you measure the economic upside vs this added downside drain it is a net positive number for the UK economy.

[peterms]

Woman arrested after posting photo of George Osborne at Dominatrix’s flat

 

 

A woman was arrested today after posting a photograph on Twitter of chancellor George Osborne at her flat when she worked as a madame at an escort agency.

Natalie Rowe posted this photo on Twitter just two days ago:

 

Then today Natalie was arrested by the police for “abusive behaviour”:

 

Natalie’s home was also searched last year by police after she tried to publish her memoirs in which she mentions Osborne took cocaine and used her services as a dominatrix called Miss Whiplash:

Cops raid home of ex-vice madam about to tell all on wild parties involving top Tories

 

Of course this could all be coincidence.

 

Or perhaps more proof – if any more were needed – that our police are being used to protect politicians’ reputations rather than catching criminals?

 

 

I gather the abusive behaviour relates to an incident on the Kings Road.  There is no connection between that and her posting the picture.

 

Similarly, when she was raided by a drug squad with a battering ram last year (and nothing was found), there was no connection with her having said she would publish new revelations about Osborne.  And the drug squad officers who asked her during the raid about the contents of her forthcoming memoirs were just making conversation, as you do.

[Eames]

Woman arrested after posting photo of George Osborne at Dominatrix’s flat

 

 

A woman was arrested today after posting a photograph on Twitter of chancellor George Osborne at her flat when she worked as a madame at an escort agency.

Natalie Rowe posted this photo on Twitter just two days ago:

 

Then today Natalie was arrested by the police for “abusive behaviour”:

 

Natalie’s home was also searched last year by police after she tried to publish her memoirs in which she mentions Osborne took cocaine and used her services as a dominatrix called Miss Whiplash:

Cops raid home of ex-vice madam about to tell all on wild parties involving top Tories

 

Of course this could all be coincidence.

 

Or perhaps more proof – if any more were needed – that our police are being used to protect politicians’ reputations rather than catching criminals?

 

 

I gather the abusive behaviour relates to an incident on the Kings Road.  There is no connection between that and her posting the picture.

 

Similarly, when she was raided by a drug squad with a battering ram last year (and nothing was found), there was no connection with her having said she would publish new revelations about Osborne.  And the drug squad officers who asked her during the raid about the contents of her forthcoming memoirs were just making conversation, as you do.

2 possible explainations for Osbourne not suing her. 1) its true or 2) the Streisand Effect. She can be managed as a nutter on Twitter (and she clearly is as mad as a badger) or you sue her and draw more attention to this.

[Risso]

 

 

It should be noted that cross border arrangements involving benefits are in most cases reciprocal. So any reduction in entitlements here will also potentially affect our own welfare security if we choose to live and work abroad. The flow of people is not just one way.

 

I'm pretty certain that a million people from the UK haven't moved over to live in Poland and Bulgaria.

 

"People are individuals and trying to group them based on their nationality is racist."

 

Of course it isn't, that's ridiculous.

 

 

 

A governments stance on saying the immigrants from Eastern Europe are essentially not welcome and are drain on the UK welfare system breeds resentment towards people from those countries. Which will cause more people to have preconceptions about a person based on their nationality. This I believe is unhealthy, and to a degree fosters racisim.

 

Two of my Friends are married to Polish women, like many people from Poland they moved to Ireland shorly after Poland joine dthe EU. One is a Physiotherapist, the other is a qualified Accountant. I'm glad Ireland was a more accepting country to immigrants, owed a lot to our long past of an entire generation emmigrating to the US in the 70's and 80's.

 

We said of the Polish back in 2005, it's what the Irish used to be like. Hard working. People came to find a better life, why shouldn't they?

 

The problem really stems from the fact that employers now can hire a worker of superior quality for the same rate than he or she would have had if UK's borders were closed to Easter Europe. This boosts the productivity of the country as a whole.

 

The downside is that bottom of the barrel lazy bums of society are not going to be able find work due to this competition. While also some of the lazy bums from other countries will come here to try get some better welfare too.

 

But when you measure the economic upside vs this added downside drain it is a net positive number for the UK economy.

 

 

I don't disagree with that at all.  The only problem is when you have such a massive influx of people into places like the UK and Ireland that isn't planned.  Then there are going to people who lose out in the job market, and local services start to feel the pressure. 

[MakemineVanilla]

 

 

 

It should be noted that cross border arrangements involving benefits are in most cases reciprocal. So any reduction in entitlements here will also potentially affect our own welfare security if we choose to live and work abroad. The flow of people is not just one way.

 

I'm pretty certain that a million people from the UK haven't moved over to live in Poland and Bulgaria.

 

"People are individuals and trying to group them based on their nationality is racist."

 

Of course it isn't, that's ridiculous.

 

 

 

A governments stance on saying the immigrants from Eastern Europe are essentially not welcome and are drain on the UK welfare system breeds resentment towards people from those countries. Which will cause more people to have preconceptions about a person based on their nationality. This I believe is unhealthy, and to a degree fosters racisim.

 

Two of my Friends are married to Polish women, like many people from Poland they moved to Ireland shorly after Poland joine dthe EU. One is a Physiotherapist, the other is a qualified Accountant. I'm glad Ireland was a more accepting country to immigrants, owed a lot to our long past of an entire generation emmigrating to the US in the 70's and 80's.

 

We said of the Polish back in 2005, it's what the Irish used to be like. Hard working. People came to find a better life, why shouldn't they?

 

The problem really stems from the fact that employers now can hire a worker of superior quality for the same rate than he or she would have had if UK's borders were closed to Easter Europe. This boosts the productivity of the country as a whole.

 

The downside is that bottom of the barrel lazy bums of society are not going to be able find work due to this competition. While also some of the lazy bums from other countries will come here to try get some better welfare too.

 

But when you measure the economic upside vs this added downside drain it is a net positive number for the UK economy.

 

 

I don't disagree with that at all.  The only problem is when you have such a massive influx of people into places like the UK and Ireland that isn't planned.  Then there are going to people who lose out in the job market, and local services start to feel the pressure. 

 

 

The ironic thing is that the main beneficiaries of immigration are the middle-classes, who get cheap labour to help them make their businesses more profitable and cheaper services (plumbers, waiters, gardeners etc) which makes the middle-class life-style more affordable.

 

Yet, these are the people who threaten to vote UKIP and pressurise Cameron into emulating them.

 

Workers who see fewer job opportunities, their wages pushed down and can't get a council house, vote for a party for which immigration-control is anathema. 

[bickster]

The ironic thing is that the main beneficiaries of immigration are the middle-classes, who get cheap labour to help them make their businesses more profitable and cheaper services (plumbers, waiters, gardeners etc) which makes the middle-class life-style more affordable.

 

Yet, these are the people who threaten to vote UKIP and pressurise Cameron into emulating them.

 

Workers who see fewer job opportunities, their wages pushed down and can't get a council house, vote for a party for which immigration-control is anathema.

Actually not true, UKIP voters are more likely to be older, less well educated, male and working class than the average UK voter. They are also by a huge margin former Tory voters

The irony of this is that UKIP's vote is already dying out

[MakemineVanilla]

 

The ironic thing is that the main beneficiaries of immigration are the middle-classes, who get cheap labour to help them make their businesses more profitable and cheaper services (plumbers, waiters, gardeners etc) which makes the middle-class life-style more affordable.

 

Yet, these are the people who threaten to vote UKIP and pressurise Cameron into emulating them.

 

Workers who see fewer job opportunities, their wages pushed down and can't get a council house, vote for a party for which immigration-control is anathema.

Actually not true, UKIP voters are more likely to be older, less well educated, male and working class than the average UK voter. They are also by a huge margin former Tory voters

The irony of this is that UKIP's vote is already dying out

 

 

Cameron seems to be nicking one of their policies a week.

 

There has been much talk of the Tories introducing a flat tax-rate of 31% for everyone this week; another UKIP policy.

 

As for the UKIP vote being in decline, I don't see that as good news because the UKIP could only split the Tory vote, which would be good for Labour in marginal seats.

 

The Greens seem determined to split the Labour vote and so it is going to be a close run thing.

[bickster]

Cameron seems to be nicking one of their policies a week.

 

There has been much talk of the Tories introducing a flat tax-rate of 31% for everyone this week; another UKIP policy.

 

As for the UKIP vote being in decline, I don't see that as good news because the UKIP could only split the Tory vote, which would be good for Labour in marginal seats.

 

The Greens seem determined to split the Labour vote and so it is going to be a close run thing.

The media appears determined not to let the Greens split the Labour vote would be my assessment

[Xann]

Considering who owns the majority of media, it's not a surprise.

 

Though, in my opinion, the Beeb has let us down badly over the last couple of years.

 

The run up to the Euros was a bad joke.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Greens will never get a look in because they want change.

[meregreen]

Any restrictions on benefits would most likely apply to all foreigners, not just certain nationalities. . Incidentally according to the BBC there are an estimated 5,000,000 Brits working abroad, 1,300,000 in Australia alone. Quite a large number .

Edited August 1, 2014 by meregreen

[blandy]

...according to the BBC there are an estimated 5,000,000 Brits working abroad, 1,300,000 in Australia alone. Quite a large number .

 

That's something that kind of has an underlying aspect to it that doesn't get discussed much. I've worked in Australia (not emigrated, just spent a lot of time there). They want people from the UK with the relevant skills to go there and support their economy (though they're cutting back a lot now, on issuing Visas to go and work there. But anyway, they want people from similar cultures, with similar values and who will in their view integrate easily, add value and fit in seamlessly. What they're a lot less keen on is for people without the skills, with different cultural backgrounds and languages going there. Perhaps because they see (in their view) that it might create problems -either economic or societal.

 

Maybe the society aspect is not discussed as much here? maybe when lincolnshire towns get an influx of eastern europeans those towns change massively and quickly for the people who lived there a long time, and maybe they don't like all of the aspects of the changes. Maybe the speed of hospital and school and amenity building to support those new people puts pressure on everything, for the worse. Maybe the people there don't feel comfortable when they get on the bus and there are others on it "speaking extra-terrestrial, not like us".?

 

I think cities cope much better with influxes of people from all over. Sydney is an absolutely fabulous place, and part of that is because of the chinese quarter there, which is a proper vibrant melting pot of different cultures and people. London is similar. But there are plenty of towns in the UK where the mix isn't vibrant and alive and colourful, but seems more monochrome ( I was going to say back and white, but it's not about colour, as in race). You get a a kind of set of two or three insular communities within communities in a place. Given time, then it may meld into one, hopefully. But if it's a case of people coming to a town for 2 or 3 years, then clearing off to be replaced by new people, then it's harder for that to happen.

 

So I think there's a lot of a sense in some places that things are changing in ways people don't feel in control of, don't have any say in, and that's why some of them think the UKIP dog whistling is for them, and why the likes of the tories and sometimes labour seem to echo those whistles, for vote grabbing reasons.

[peterms]

Update on Natalie Rowe:

 

 

Natalie Rowe ‏@RealNatalieRowe 1h

Arrested asked to make statement, Police had no statement from the alleged victim/s,how on earth can I make statement, released No charge

 

It would be interesting to see a police account of the arrest, and the justification for it.  From her account, it sounds like harassment.

 

[drat01]

Considering who owns the majority of media, it's not a surprise.

Though, in my opinion, the Beeb has let us down badly over the last couple of years.

The run up to the Euros was a bad joke.

political editor at the bbc ex leader of young Tory . Chairman of bbc ex Tory cabinet member .....