Awol Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Yes, it's great when bigoted arseholes like UKIP get to represent the UK in Europe. It's great that they can form coalitions with other bigoted arseholes, and the rise of bigoted arseholes can carry on relatively unchecked because people are too bloody stupid to realise that said bigoted arseholes don't give a toss about them, their family or their working conditions, they only want power, money, and to send people who don't look like them 'back home'. It disgusts me and it should disgust any reasonable minded individual But of course, anyone who doesn't support the EU project is bloody stupid and not of reasonable mind. Thanks for clearing that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Well I'm glad you admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Well that wasn't what I said, or implied. I'd give a longer response but I suspect I'd be better off talking to my foot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Well that wasn't what I said, or implied. I'd give a longer response but I suspect I'd be better off talking to my foot. Based on past experience I'd say so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 16, 2014 Moderator Share Posted May 16, 2014 But of course, anyone who doesn't support the EU project is bloody stupid and not of reasonable mind. Thanks for clearing that up. I think a lot of people support UKIP because they are anti EU, or anti immigration, or anti the current established parties. I doubt that many agree, or would agree with their "policies" if they thought them through. That doesn't make them stupid or unreasonable, but it does make them inattentive to the reality, in many cases. The things UKIP plays on are not really things they can control. But they are making other parties adjust their own stances, or stand by what they have always said - so the Lib Dems did some debates, arguing the opposite view to the UKIP anti EU view, the Greens have always held their same views on Europe and they're not the same as UKIPS, and Labour and tories have moved towards a more UKIPy direction. So UKIP is opening out the debate, even though they are utter bonkers on many things they do and say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Well that wasn't what I said, or implied. I'd give a longer response but I suspect I'd be better off talking to my foot. Well it was what you implied, quite clearly. Seeing as UKIP are the ONLY party serious about withdrawing from the EU then anyone with that goal has little other option at the ballot box. If the polls are anywhere near accurate many other voters seemed to have reached the same conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Well that wasn't what I said, or implied. I'd give a longer response but I suspect I'd be better off talking to my foot. Based on past experience I'd say so. Glad to see time hasn't diminished the quality of your contributions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendelc Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Well that wasn't what I said, or implied. I'd give a longer response but I suspect I'd be better off talking to my foot. Well it was what you implied, quite clearly. Seeing as UKIP are the ONLY party serious about withdrawing from the EU then anyone with that goal has little other option at the ballot box. If the polls are anywhere near accurate many other voters seemed to have reached the same conclusion. Me included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 But of course, anyone who doesn't support the EU project is bloody stupid and not of reasonable mind. Thanks for clearing that up. I think a lot of people support UKIP because they are anti EU, or anti immigration, or anti the current established parties. I doubt that many agree, or would agree with their "policies" if they thought them through. That doesn't make them stupid or unreasonable, but it does make them inattentive to the reality, in many cases. The things UKIP plays on are not really things they can control. But they are making other parties adjust their own stances, or stand by what they have always said - so the Lib Dems did some debates, arguing the opposite view to the UKIP anti EU view, the Greens have always held their same views on Europe and they're not the same as UKIPS, and Labour and tories have moved towards a more UKIPy direction. So UKIP is opening out the debate, even though they are utter bonkers on many things they do and say. Which means they are doing what they were always intended to do, create a situation whereby the main parties were no longer able to treat mainstream public concerns with such utter disdain. It's taken a while but you watch them all jump to the whip if UKIP win next Thursday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I'm far more in favour of something which says the top earners in a co. can only earn a set multiple maximum of the lowest paid. Directors getting 5 million, or 8 million a year, as happens, and then staff earning the minimum wage is ridiculous. That's just as bonkers as the Green suggestion to be fair. Each to their own, though it's something that a few places do already, voluntarily. Doesn't seem to harm them, quite the opposite. John Lewis do a thing where there's something like a 70 times multiple between the highest they will pay and (either, I'm not sure) the lowest full time wage, or the average full time wage, there. And when they pay bonuses, which they nearly always do, there's more of a uniformity across all levels of the structure, rather than millions in shares and so on for the big cheeses and a hunder pounds or so to the pond life at the bottom of the food chain. it beats my how someone in a bank or chain can ever be worth multi millions plus similar bonuses each year. No one brings that much value - it's just been something that has happened over the last 30 years or so. It's like mutually assured financial destruction, favouring people in the boardroom over everyone else. I fail to see how it benefits the people at the bottom if you cap the wages of the directors. Does it really matter to somebody earning £10 an hour that the most the Managing Director can earn is 75 times that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 (edited) Yes, it's great when bigoted arseholes like UKIP get to represent the UK in Europe. It's great that they can form coalitions with other bigoted arseholes, and the rise of bigoted arseholes can carry on relatively unchecked because people are too bloody stupid to realise that said bigoted arseholes don't give a toss about them, their family or their working conditions, they only want power, money, and to send people who don't look like them 'back home'. It disgusts me and it should disgust any reasonable minded individual Isn't that a bit bigoted, to suggest anyone who votes for UKIP, are too bloody stupid to realise what they are voting for. Even Ed Milliband said today in the Guardian, (typical bloody Guardian, posting something negative about Labour, and not allowing comments for hours, any other party is opened up in minutes) said worrying about immigration is not predjudice, and that Labour had all too often turned it's back on immigration concerns. Edited May 16, 2014 by colhint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Well it was what you implied, quite clearly. No, it wasn't. I was making a quite clear and obvious reference to Farage & co's rather troubling views, (e.g. on the 'quality' of people let into the UK - for some reason Romanians are not of the required quality) and the bigoted views held by the various parties they happen to be in coaltion with in the European parliament. My final sentence was simply highlighting my dismay and disgust at the masses of people who brush aside those views simply for a protest vote or a single policy - that is a very dangerous game to play and I'm rather surprised that reasonable people can't see it. There was nothing in my post attacking people sceptical of the EU, or who want out of the EU. That you came to that conclusion is genuinely bewildering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaajax Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 Well that wasn't what I said, or implied. I'd give a longer response but I suspect I'd be better off talking to my foot. Based on past experience I'd say so. Glad to see time hasn't diminished the quality of your contributions. Glad to see you haven't resorted to willy jokes again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 16, 2014 Moderator Share Posted May 16, 2014 I fail to see how it benefits the people at the bottom if you cap the wages of the directors. Does it really matter to somebody earning £10 an hour that the most the Managing Director can earn is 75 times that? easy. That one. If a company wishes to pay its directors highly, they have to also lift the wages of the other people who contribute to the success for which the directors get rewarded. We have a situation currently where executive pay has multiplied far far more than ornery folks pay in most industries, over the past 30 to 40 years. The directors are not doing relatively better than their predecessors did. They're just getting more because of the changes brought about by Reagan and thatcher, removing too much constraint on boards, by short term thinking and it's a mistake 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted May 16, 2014 Author Moderator Share Posted May 16, 2014 I loath to post anything about UKIP, they get enough publicity. However this is worth a watch as Farage gets a bit of a grilling.http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/5336322?&ir=UKAnother failed hatchet job on UKIP. They'll win the euro elections comfortably if the polling is correct and the establishment (left and right) is bricking it.If the latest polls are correct then it'll be Labour with the most MEPs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 I'm far more in favour of something which says the top earners in a co. can only earn a set multiple maximum of the lowest paid. Directors getting 5 million, or 8 million a year, as happens, and then staff earning the minimum wage is ridiculous. That's just as bonkers as the Green suggestion to be fair. it works very well for John Lewis. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted May 16, 2014 Share Posted May 16, 2014 It doesn't really work well for JL, unless you're Charlie boy (according to this Torygraph article, it's a max of 75 times the average wage and he gets 60 times it). I guess his proportion of the bonus is along the same lines as everyone else (in that he also receives a bonus which is 60 times the size of the average annual bonus)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colhint Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 In my time with the JLP some years back, the Chairman never took the bonus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eames Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 It doesn't really work well for JL, unless you're Charlie boy (according to this Torygraph article, it's a max of 75 times the average wage and he gets 60 times it). I guess his proportion of the bonus is along the same lines as everyone else (in that he also receives a bonus which is 60 times the size of the average annual bonus)? Bonus is a % of pay earned in 12 months...so yes he gets a % of his pay.. But IIRC or certainly when I worked for JLP the CEO often doesn't take the bonus. To be fair as an employer JLP are better than most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 Their salaries tend to be higher than the competition (they certainly are in IT, at least), the bonus structure does seem fairer, yes people on a higher salary get a bigger bonus, but it's a flat percentage. To compare, some of the places I've worked had 5% bonus for low level staff, going as high as 60% for high level management. Their staff got a 15% bonus across the board this year. It's been the better part of a decade since most companies gave a bonus that came anywhere near that for most employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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