Bollitics: The General Election 2010 Exit Poll

[snowychap]

Votes not moats.

[drat01]

Ads - who is this "Labour" person you are talking about that is making your piss boil?

He was an unnamed Labour party member who they were interviewing amongst the crowd.

I see a Labour MP has called on Brown to resign.

Ah OK - so your boiling piss should be chilling somewhat now then. How do you know that he was a Labour party member by the way?

Yes a MP has called for him to resign, and I also see that Norman Tebbit has ripped into Cameron. Post elections there is always a lot of views on leaders and such like.

[LondonLax]

I live in a Labour area and it will stay that way for ever and a day I suspect, but what is to say that my neighbour's LibDem vote should be disregarded completely?

But now your neighbour's LibDem vote is holding more power and sway than either Labour votes or Tory votes, both of which parties polled more votes individually than the LibDems.

And under PR this would always be the case.

There is no perfect way.

But under PR people would not vote only for the big two, they would vote differently than they do now because their vote would actually count for something. Perhaps Labour would be the 3rd biggest party one year, perhaps the Torys would be, it is not as cut and dry as the Lib dems always holding the balance of power.

[thetrees]

He was an unnamed Labour party member who they were interviewing amongst the crowd.

Do you mean Will Straw?

He was pulled out of the crowd for a bit of an interview.

Helping police with their enquiries again :winkold:

[drat01]

I live in a Labour area and it will stay that way for ever and a day I suspect, but what is to say that my neighbour's LibDem vote should be disregarded completely?

But now your neighbour's LibDem vote is holding more power and sway than either Labour votes or Tory votes, both of which parties polled more votes individually than the LibDems.

And under PR this would always be the case.

There is no perfect way.

Every vote should have equal worth else its not democracy surely? As said the election is now dictated on a few constituencies which is not a fair system.

EDIT: I need to check my maths :-)

Electoral reform is needed and needed now (if they can rid us of the HOL also then its a big big bonus)

[thetrees]

I live in a Labour area and it will stay that way for ever and a day I suspect, but what is to say that my neighbour's LibDem vote should be disregarded completely?

But now your neighbour's LibDem vote is holding more power and sway than either Labour votes or Tory votes, both of which parties polled more votes individually than the LibDems.

And under PR this would always be the case.

There is no perfect way.

But under PR people would not vote only for the big two, they would vote differently than they do now because their vote would actually count for something. Perhaps Labour would be the 3rd biggest party one year, perhaps the Torys would be, it is not as cut and dry as the Lib dems always holding the balance of power.

I think that perhaps too much is read into 'tactical' voting. Sure it happens, but only by a relative few.

I was always against it but had gravitated towards the idea in the last year or so. The problem for me is that the feeling is coming back that PR would ensure a left wing Britain forever, as the two parties of the left would always cuddle together (as they will do in the next few days).

Whether you like one side or the other, the potential for a sterile political landscape under PR is massive, and I'm not sure that either of the two opposing parties would really want that, and indeed whether it would be good for the country in the long run.

[snowychap]

He was an unnamed Labour party member who they were interviewing amongst the crowd.

Do you mean Will Straw?

He was pulled out of the crowd for a bit of an interview.

Helping police with their enquiries again :winkold:

He he he.

[LondonLax]

I live in a Labour area and it will stay that way for ever and a day I suspect, but what is to say that my neighbour's LibDem vote should be disregarded completely?

But now your neighbour's LibDem vote is holding more power and sway than either Labour votes or Tory votes, both of which parties polled more votes individually than the LibDems.

And under PR this would always be the case.

There is no perfect way.

But under PR people would not vote only for the big two, they would vote differently than they do now because their vote would actually count for something. Perhaps Labour would be the 3rd biggest party one year, perhaps the Torys would be, it is not as cut and dry as the Lib dems always holding the balance of power.

I think that perhaps too much is read into 'tactical' voting. Sure it happens, but only by a relative few.

I was always against it but had gravitated towards the idea in the last year or so. The problem for me is that the feeling is coming back that PR would ensure a left wing Britain forever, as the two parties of the left would always cuddle together (as they will do in the next few days).

Whether you like one side or the other, the potential for a sterile political landscape under PR is massive, and I'm not sure that either of the two opposing parties would really want that, and indeed whether it would be good for the country in the long run.

So basically what you are saying is, most of the UK electorite would prefer a left wing government but because you are in the minority that would prefer a right wing government the unfair system should remain in place?

[TheDon]

I live in a Labour area and it will stay that way for ever and a day I suspect, but what is to say that my neighbour's LibDem vote should be disregarded completely?

But now your neighbour's LibDem vote is holding more power and sway than either Labour votes or Tory votes, both of which parties polled more votes individually than the LibDems.

And under PR this would always be the case.

There is no perfect way.

Every vote should have equal worth else its not democracy surely? As said the election is now dictated on a few constituencies which is not a fair system.

EDIT: I need to check my maths :-)

Electoral reform is needed and needed now (if they can rid us of the HOL also then its a big big bonus)

AVS would solve the issue that your math is going to explain (tbh I thought you had it right), as C probably wouldn't have got a seat in the 3rd example depending on how the votes from the eliminated candidate were distributed.

I think AVS is better at reflecting the will of the people than FPTP, whilst still avoiding a situation where a minority party can disproportionately influence government.

[avfc89]

Awol, what's your problem with having a fair Social System? What do you want the less fortunate to have? Nothing? because we haven't "Done Well"(What ever that means)? You're showing everyone that you're a selfish ignorant being.

[thetrees]

I live in a Labour area and it will stay that way for ever and a day I suspect, but what is to say that my neighbour's LibDem vote should be disregarded completely?

But now your neighbour's LibDem vote is holding more power and sway than either Labour votes or Tory votes, both of which parties polled more votes individually than the LibDems.

And under PR this would always be the case.

There is no perfect way.

But under PR people would not vote only for the big two, they would vote differently than they do now because their vote would actually count for something. Perhaps Labour would be the 3rd biggest party one year, perhaps the Torys would be, it is not as cut and dry as the Lib dems always holding the balance of power.

I think that perhaps too much is read into 'tactical' voting. Sure it happens, but only by a relative few.

I was always against it but had gravitated towards the idea in the last year or so. The problem for me is that the feeling is coming back that PR would ensure a left wing Britain forever, as the two parties of the left would always cuddle together (as they will do in the next few days).

Whether you like one side or the other, the potential for a sterile political landscape under PR is massive, and I'm not sure that either of the two opposing parties would really want that, and indeed whether it would be good for the country in the long run.

So basically what you are saying is, most of the UK electorite would prefer a left wing government but because you are in the minority that would prefer a right wing government the unfair system should remain in place?

Not at all, I am questioning whether outright PR as it is put forward would be a good thing.

I think that constant left wing or constant right wing government would be a bad thing.

[Jon]

you fail to appreciate that both Lab and the Libs had entries about electoral reform in their manifesto's.

electoral reform/PR was a key promise in the 1997 manifesto Ian.

Why was it not therefore introduced?

Not good enough IMO.

They got in with a massive majority, so didn't want to bring it in.

It's just a huge pile of bollocks.

[thetrees]

Electoral reform is needed and needed now (if they can rid us of the HOL also then its a big big bonus)

What is the ideal way then?

Would we all vote and then have a local representative (MP) allocated to us?

My vote was cast last Thursday for a person who I believe has been an excellent MP for the constituency in which I live, and my vote was therefore my small voice of approval.

Were I to live in the constituency where I work, I would very likely have also voted for the sitting MP because I believe that she is equally excellent, and she represents a different party to my local MP.

I prefer to vote for an individual, based upon their merits and what they do for the community. Would a PR system take that opportunity away from me?

[ml1dch]

you fail to appreciate that both Lab and the Libs had entries about electoral reform in their manifesto's.

electoral reform/PR was a key promise in the 1997 manifesto Ian.

Why was it not therefore introduced?

An effective House of Commons

We believe the House of Commons is in need of modernisation and we will ask the House to establish a special Select Committee to review its procedures. Prime Minister's Questions will be made more effective. Ministerial accountability will be reviewed so as to remove recent abuses. The process for scrutinising European legislation will be overhauled.

The Nolan recommendations will be fully implemented and extended to all public bodies. We will oblige parties to declare the source of all donations above a minimum figure: Labour does this voluntarily and all parties should do so. Foreign funding will be banned. We will ask the Nolan Committee to consider how the funding of political parties should be regulated and reformed.

We are committed to a referendum on the voting system for the House of Commons. An independent commission on voting systems will be appointed early to recommend a proportional alternative to the first-past-the-post system.

At this election, Labour is proud to be making major strides to rectify the under-representation of women in public life.

1997 Labour Manifesto

I must have missed that referedum.

[jon_c]

Well in that sense you'd want two elected houses. One PR the seats divided between the parties from which to form the government. And the second elected in constituencies, to represent local issues in parliament.

[Gringo]

I think that constant left wing or constant right wing government would be a bad thing.

Well we've tried constant right wing govt for the past three decades and there's plenty of room for improvement.

[thetrees]

I think that constant left wing or constant right wing government would be a bad thing.

Well we've tried constant right wing govt for the past three decades and there's plenty of room for improvement.

Looks like I played the best through ball that most on here have seen all season :winkold:

[Awol]

Awol, what's your problem with having a fair Social System?

No problem at all, in fact I encourage it.

What do you want the less fortunate to have? Nothing? because we haven't "Done Well"(What ever that means)?

Please, show me where I have said anything remotely like that. A quote would be good.

You're showing everyone that you're a selfish ignorant being.

[snowychap]

I think that constant left wing or constant right wing government would be a bad thing.

Well we've tried constant right wing govt for the past three decades and there's plenty of room for improvement.

Looks like I played the best through ball that most on here have seen all season :winkold:

[avfc89]

Awol-

To be honest it's the arrogant and controlling instincts of people like you who think you have a right to reach into the pockets of others that made me realise how flawed socialism really is. You can dress up your opinions as "social conscience" if you wish, in reality it's the difference between a free society and the malignant hatred of those who simply don't like to see others prosper.

That is simply untrue and very unfair on people who have benefited from the state funding in the Public Sector. I'm a consumer of the Social System and I have been given the opportunity to progress in my life from that System. I have no concerns with paying Taxes back into the System, and I don't see why anyone would too?

And my opinion is from someone who has no problems with others' prosperity and wealth, I encourage self independence and individual growth, if that is what one desires. Social conscience is a fantastic feature of the Human mind; why should ignorant people ignore their fellow beings' cry for justice and fairness? Is it because we are arrogant people who like control or is it because we are people who can look past our own self interest? I will let you decide that Awol as you seem a very intelligible person and a poster who I have the utmost respect for.

I can't stand people who adhere by Thatcher's attitude; people who don't want to acknowledge the less fortunate, people who would exploit their fellow men and women for increased wealth, people who would label others from a less privileged background as state spongers. Once this World abandons that ignorant propensity, we will see serious change for the better, I hope for all history's injustices and justice fighters that we can have that World one day, whenever it arrives. Don't let individuals make you believe there's no Society, don't let them say there's no common unity between individuals, because the real truth is in History's eye and heart and I believe the future's.