Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #6 - Leaders Debate 3

[Malachite]

Sorta sums up what I've felt about the leaders. It's worrying I almost like Gordon Brown.

He comes across like a politician should.

Really? :shock:

Awkward with the general public (who as PM he represents in their entirity), fake and awkward plastic forced smile, belittling and abusive "in private" of the people who vote for him.

If that is how politicians "should" come across, I must have been living in a parallel universe for the last 36 years.

He seems to treat his public with contempt. Whether that is a genuine portrayal or not, the others don't do that. Clegg seems genuinely interested in the public he meets.

I think many a leader would struggle to get elected when they seem to dislike the public at large, or at least dislike interacting with them in any way.

Image does matter, as does substance.

Brown's image is simpy woeful, as Brooker acknowledges. It'll cost him.

Oddly enough, that's my favourite thing about Brown, it's like they didn't manage to finish the surgery and he's still got some humanity left in him.

Clegg and Cameron are Blair clones, they're the epitome of a modern party leader. They always seem a little bit identikit to me and I get the feeling there's a spin doctor somewhere churning them out.

Agree with this, Brown still looks craggy and saggy like life's kicked the phuk out of him and it shows, Clegg looks like a well honed and sculptured shop window dummy to me " The suit man", Cameron, i reckon he uses more moisturizer than the average bint, his face positively shines and gleams with reflective light, perhaps he's an angel !!!!!!!!

[avfc89]

I agree with Chindie about Brown; he doesn't have the charisma of Tony Blair or the best PR skills in public engagement, that's quite evident judging the past few weeks. However, I do believe he has the political mind and drive to progress the Country forward, and I believe, genuinely for the sake of everyone in this land. His plans for the future show sagacity and a passion to move Britain forward for the good of all people, not just a certain sect.

[leviramsey]

Hopefully C-SPAN picks up the election returns broadcast from the BBC.

[mykeyb]

Pissing in the wind

[chrisp65]

Still hung as a crude average across the land however the very latest polls beginning to revert to the traditional appearance of a clear one two three with the Libs being third. You couple that with FPTP and the quirks of boundaries and I'm willing to bet the number of Lib Dems in the next parliament won't be much different to what it was in the last. The cons are beginning to edge out to the magic number of 8 / 9% in the polls. Throw into the mix the fact that people generally vote tory more than they are prepared to admit they vote tory (they're selfish but at least they feel guilty about it, I guess) and the tory's might just squeeze it.

The issue of Brown not being God's gift to PR is an interesting one. Part of the current dismay with politicians was people's perceived loss of trust due to presentation and style taking precedence over substance. I don't necessarily need the leader to be slick, I do need to beleive he can empathise with 'us'. I'm not convinced that either a millionaire or a career politician can truly fit that bill.

One puzzling thing, I live in a town that is a marginal, currently held by Labour with a majority of 1,800 it has switched between Labour and Tory a few times over the years. The one candidate I've seen or heard nothing of, not even a leaflet through the door, is the Labour condidate. I went to a birthday party in an upstairs function room of the local Labour club on Saturday, even they didn't have posters in the windows. I find that puzzling to say the least. You can only presume that locally they've decided bollix, we had a good run but we can't actually be arsed this time around.

Incidentally Guiness was £2.70 a pint. Now there's a moral dilema, should you join a political club just to get discounted booze?

[Reality]

If you are an alcoholic, then yes.

[TheDon]

Still hung as a crude average across the land however the very latest polls beginning to revert to the traditional appearance of a clear one two three with the Libs being third. You couple that with FPTP and the quirks of boundaries and I'm willing to bet the number of Lib Dems in the next parliament won't be much different to what it was in the last. The cons are beginning to edge out to the magic number of 8 / 9% in the polls. Throw into the mix the fact that people generally vote tory more than they are prepared to admit they vote tory (they're selfish but at least they feel guilty about it, I guess) and the tory's might just squeeze it.

That's actually extremely close to the numbers I used in the predict the seats thread to get a small Labour majority. Just one more percent from the Lib Dems to Labour and Labour are sitting on a majority (isn't first past the post awesome!) and that's really not unbelievable at all.

In fact, the latest poll of polls data on the Sky site gives Labour a 1 seat majority.

Labour could still nick this, I wonder what odds I'd get on it.... 8/1... not bad... might be worth a cheeky bet.

[Awol]

Winning this election is the definition of inheriting a poisoned chalice anyway because what needs to be done will be so brutal the public won't forgive it for a long time to come.

That's basically the gist of last night's pub conversation. My (solidly Labour) mate reckons there'll be another election within two years as there will be a massive public backlash against the Tories' policies. Probably wishful thinking though.

I've been predicting a second election before the end of the year in every one of these threads too, but my reasoning is different to that of your mates.

If the Tories don't have a clear working majority then the policies needed won't get through Parliament in the first place, so they'd call a second election to try and win the required mandate once the TRUE state of the national finances are in the public domain.

When we find out how much we are hock through PFI in addition to the acknowledged debt mountain then even those still in denial will have to start facing up to the problem.

[drat01]

Michael Gove - what a complete and utter twunt.

He actually seems happy and pleased about talking on people losing jobs. Talking about thousands of people being removed from the education system

[Awol]

What's been amusing me is the apparent anarchy within Labour's high command about tactical voting:

Ed (spit) Balls: Vote tactically to keep the dreaded Tories out!

A Darling: Voters can make up their own minds who to vote for but I want them to vote Labour

Peter Hain: Vote tactically to keep the dreaded Tories out!

G Brown: I want the maximum possible Labour turnout, not tactical voting.

etc etc.

Bunch of spanners.

[Jon]

What's been amusing me is the apparent anarchy within Labour's high command about tactical voting:

Ed (spit) Balls: Vote tactically to keep the dreaded Tories out!

A Darling: Voters can make up their own minds who to vote for but I want them to vote Labour

Peter Hain: Vote tactically to keep the dreaded Tories out!

G Brown: I want the maximum possible Labour turnout, not tactical voting.

etc etc.

Bunch of spanners.

TBF The Libs are doing exactly the same thing.

Encouraging tactical voting, but then advocating voting for themselves at the same time, or with a different person saying it.

it is in both the Libs and Labour's best interest to encourage tatical voting, if you see them both as centre left parties, who wish to rally against a "right wing" electoral victory.

Always has been. Nothing new about this election, other than that tactical voting could maybe swing it one way or the other, seeing as how close it looks, compared to the last 3 elections.

were I in a marginal where voting labour or lib dem would keep out a tory candidate, i would vote for whoever hasd the best chance of doing that.

[Awol]

[drat01]

ahh the words of of another "hidden" Tory setup - sunlight cops.

Except it has been exposed as just another front for the politically corrupt Guido Fawkes - aka Paul Staines

My hasn’t Paul Staines (aka Guido Fawkes) been busy today.

Not only has he been desperately spinning the Charity Commission’s inquiry report into his allegations of impropriety at the Smith Institute for all he’s worth, in the vain hope that no one will notice that the whole thing has turned out to be the expected busted flush but he’s also found time to promote the website of a brand new Conservative Future front organisation.

The ‘Centre for Open Politics’ purports to ‘inspired’ by the work of the non-partisan Washington DC-based Sunlight Foundation, which works to promote openness and transparency in the American political system with a particular emphasis on mapping the influence of corporate funders and lobbyists in the US Congress.

In reality, the two founding members of the ‘Centre for Open Politics’ are Harry Cole, formerly the Vice-Chairman/Treasurer of Edinburgh University Conservative Future, and Amanda O’Brien who, earlier this year, was listed on campaign blog of Michael Rock, the current national Chairman of Conservative Future, as the Deputy Chairman of Essex Conservative Future.

Moreover, as an article posted at Conservative Home in July 2007 reveals, Cole spent much of last summer working out of Conservative Central Office with the previous Chairman of Conservative Future, Mark Clark, and Justine Greening MP, on the preparations for Conservative Future’s national Fresher’s Week recruitment drive and was even given his own e-mail address on the official conservatives.com domain.

[wiganvillain]

Why oh why am I not in the least surprised by any of that

[Awol]

What's been amusing me is the apparent anarchy within Labour's high command about tactical voting:

Ed (spit) Balls: Vote tactically to keep the dreaded Tories out!

A Darling: Voters can make up their own minds who to vote for but I want them to vote Labour

Peter Hain: Vote tactically to keep the dreaded Tories out!

G Brown: I want the maximum possible Labour turnout, not tactical voting.

etc etc.

Bunch of spanners.

TBF The Libs are doing exactly the same thing.

Encouraging tactical voting, but then advocating voting for themselves at the same time, or with a different person saying it.

Does that not just create confusion though whenb a party cannot put out a unified message, ultimately damaging them at the poll booth?

I understand the principle (which is why with reluctance I've decided to hold my nose and vote Tory instead of UKIP) but it just seems to portray those saying it as very confused and not a great advertisment for the people wanting to run the country for the next five years..

[Awol]

ahh the words of of another "hidden" Tory setup - sunlight cops.

Ok, so presumably Ed Balls and his missus weren't claiming for the same mortgage, he didn't go to an exclusive fee paying school and that is definitely not him dressed up as Nazi during a session with an Oxford Uni drinking club?

Pretty much makes a mockery of the Tory toff line Labour have been banging on about.

Edit: Then there is claiming for a wreath he laid on Rememberance Day which is uber classy.

Lest we forget..

[drat01]

I understand the principle (which is why with reluctance I've decided to hold my nose and vote Tory instead of UKIP) but it just seems to portray those saying it as very confused and not a great advertisment for the people wanting to run the country for the next five years..

Not at all - and Jon knew you would vote for them :-) - surely your voting for Tory rather than UKIP smacks of hypocrisy then? Under this flawed system of FPTP tactical voting will always happen. All of the parties accept that in certain constituencies they have zero chance of winning and if they can then try and ensure that other parties who are furthest away from them are kept out off the role of local MP, it is the better of two evils.

[Awol]

I understand the principle (which is why with reluctance I've decided to hold my nose and vote Tory instead of UKIP) but it just seems to portray those saying it as very confused and not a great advertisment for the people wanting to run the country for the next five years..

Not at all - and Jon knew you would vote for them :-) - surely your voting for Tory rather than UKIP smacks of hypocrisy then?

Not hypocritical at all, my point wasn't that tactical voting per se is bad, but that if the party advocating it can't decide whether it wants its supporters to do so or not it is speaking with two faces and creating the impression that there is no real discipline or control.

Basically it makes them look like idiots.

[drat01]

Edit: Then there is claiming for a wreath he laid on Rememberance Day which is uber classy.

Lest we forget..

Oh dear

Boris Johnson = one of Cameron's closest allies and buddies claims for poppy wreath - 16.50

Boris Johnson tried to claim £16.50 in expenses for a memorial wreath while he was an MP, it was revealed today.

[drat01]

Basically it makes them look like idiots.

So Tory tactical voting suggestions in areas such as Scotland is also the same ?