Risso Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 how the hell did a thread about aliens get turned into a god debate? anyway, no more god stuff please. It answered the question. If people believe in a magical, invisible sky fairy, the answer is clearly "no"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 27, 2010 VT Supporter Share Posted April 27, 2010 how the hell did a thread about aliens get turned into a god debate? anyway, no more god stuff please. If there are aliens, they may be so foreign to us that we can't even tell they are there. They could be so large or so small that we can see them, they could only be visible in light spectrums that we can see, they could be non-carbon based so we couldn't even tell they are alive.I'll bet God could see them though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 If it had been more convenient to use religion as a means to exercise power I have no doubt he would have done so. Surely that's the crux of it? Nowhere in the new testament does it say anything about any of the henious crimes "chritians" have commited throughout history. It's just a convenient way to control the masses (most of whom couldnt read what the bible actually said). If religion didnt work, they would have used something else, like maybe terrorism? If christianity was ever to be removed from the face of the earth, do you really think tehre would be fewer power struggles? As for the aggressive tone in this thread towards me and JulieB. Are we to blame for what people did hundreds of years ago in the name of religion? Me a 21 year old graphic design student who hasnt so much as punched anyone in his life, and JulieB, someone who has a tweety bird in her avatar? It's really just alot of missplaced aggresion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 27, 2010 VT Supporter Share Posted April 27, 2010 If it had been more convenient to use religion as a means to exercise power I have no doubt he would have done so. Surely that's the crux of it? Nowhere in the new testament does it say anything about any of the henious crimes "chritians" have commited throughout history. It's just a convenient way to control the masses (most of whom couldnt read that the bible actually said). If religion didnt work, they would have used something else, like maybe terrorism? If christianity was ever to be removed from the face of the earth, do you really think tehre would be fewer power struggles?No, I don't. I've answered this one before. Without the spurious disguise of religion, I think people would at least be forced to confront what they were REALLY fighting over - which is usually resources. I'd rather they realised that than thinking they had god on their side, unlike the infidel enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 If it had been more convenient to use religion as a means to exercise power I have no doubt he would have done so. Surely that's the crux of it? Nowhere in the new testament does it say anything about any of the henious crimes "chritians" have commited throughout history. It's just a convenient way to control the masses (most of whom couldnt read that the bible actually said). If religion didnt work, they would have used something else, like maybe terrorism? If christianity was ever to be removed from the face of the earth, do you really think tehre would be fewer power struggles?No, I don't. I've answered this one before. Without the spurious disguise of religion, I think people would at least be forced to confront what they were REALLY fighting over - which is usually resources. I'd rather they realised that than thinking they had god on their side, unlike the infidel enemy. They believed because they were lied to. How hard would it be to think up a different lie, a lie that the masses wouldnt be able to figure out for themself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted April 27, 2010 VT Supporter Share Posted April 27, 2010 If it had been more convenient to use religion as a means to exercise power I have no doubt he would have done so. Surely that's the crux of it? Nowhere in the new testament does it say anything about any of the henious crimes "chritians" have commited throughout history. It's just a convenient way to control the masses (most of whom couldnt read that the bible actually said). If religion didnt work, they would have used something else, like maybe terrorism? If christianity was ever to be removed from the face of the earth, do you really think tehre would be fewer power struggles?No, I don't. I've answered this one before. Without the spurious disguise of religion, I think people would at least be forced to confront what they were REALLY fighting over - which is usually resources. I'd rather they realised that than thinking they had god on their side, unlike the infidel enemy. They believed because they were lied to. How hard would it be to think up a different lie, a lie that the masses wouldnt be able to figure out for themself?Oh, I agree, that would certainly happen. But I'm still for taking religion out of the equation. Sadly, I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 If it had been more convenient to use religion as a means to exercise power I have no doubt he would have done so. Surely that's the crux of it? Nowhere in the new testament does it say anything about any of the henious crimes "chritians" have commited throughout history. It's just a convenient way to control the masses (most of whom couldnt read what the bible actually said). If religion didnt work, they would have used something else, like maybe terrorism? If christianity was ever to be removed from the face of the earth, do you really think tehre would be fewer power struggles? As for the aggressive tone in this thread towards me and JulieB. Are we to blame for what people did hundreds of years ago in the name of religion? Me a 21 year old graphic design student who hasnt so much as punched anyone in his life, and JulieB, someone who has a tweety bird in her avatar? It's people like you and Julie (and all the other "believers") who perpetuate the whole sorry nonsense though. No gullible followers = no organised religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 In my experience, it seems that when it comes to these debates, the atheists are the ones more likely to aggressively force their beliefs upon you. That's because we're right. Nobody ever died in the name of atheism. Once again, organised religion becomes confused and/or aligned with a simple belief in a higher power or intelligent design. I think it's very important to separate the two. As I said, I have an open mind but to write off anyone with faith as stupid is even more so IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 People, who try to force their atheist beliefs upon God Botherers are as bad as they god botherers they try to disprove, IMO. I'm not religious, i'm probably agnostic, and creationism is bonkers, but if people want to have "faith" and believe in such things, then so be it. It's their choice. I don't see why we have to PROVE them wrong. If they are doing no harm, leave them to their beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 If it had been more convenient to use religion as a means to exercise power I have no doubt he would have done so. Surely that's the crux of it? Nowhere in the new testament does it say anything about any of the henious crimes "chritians" have commited throughout history. It's just a convenient way to control the masses (most of whom couldnt read what the bible actually said). If religion didnt work, they would have used something else, like maybe terrorism? If christianity was ever to be removed from the face of the earth, do you really think tehre would be fewer power struggles? As for the aggressive tone in this thread towards me and JulieB. Are we to blame for what people did hundreds of years ago in the name of religion? Me a 21 year old graphic design student who hasnt so much as punched anyone in his life, and JulieB, someone who has a tweety bird in her avatar? It's people like you and Julie (and all the other "believers") who perpetuate the whole sorry nonsense though. No gullible followers = no organised religion. My personality is a gullible one because I chose to believe in something you think is nonsense? This isnt a matter of someone shouting batman. Gullible doesnt come into it. If what you are meaning is easily swayed to believing a particular thing, surely i'd have stoped believing a long time ago if that were the case? I'm told on almsot a weekly basis that there is no God. 90% of the people I talk to and spend time with think I beleive in a fairy, yet I still believe. What part of that makes you think I'm easily swayed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 People, who try to force their atheist beliefs upon God Botherers are as bad as they god botherers they try to disprove, IMO. I'm not religious, i'm probably agnostic, and creationism is bonkers, but if people want to have "faith" and believe in such things, then so be it. It's their choice. I don't see why we have to PROVE them wrong. If they are doing no harm, leave them to their beliefs. Exactly. It's the arrogance of the "aggressively atheist" that bugs me. Anyway, after you've summed it up so, I think it's time for me to steer clear of this rather unpleasant thread now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted April 27, 2010 VT Supporter Share Posted April 27, 2010 People, who try to force their atheist beliefs upon God Botherers are as bad as they god botherers they try to disprove, IMO. I'm not religious, i'm probably agnostic, and creationism is bonkers, but if people want to have "faith" and believe in such things, then so be it. It's their choice. I don't see why we have to PROVE them wrong. If they are doing no harm, leave them to their beliefs. They are doing harm. They perpetuate idiocy and ignorance. Julie loves preaching on here from the Jehovahs mumbo-jumbo, and it's clearly with the aim of making people go 'Ah... maybe she's right'. And that's dangerous. People should not be encouraged to believe this shit. It stops people thinking. Selling lies to people to control them... we shouldn't accept that. It's fraud. That why it has to be combatted and wiped clean from the face of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 Exactly Chindie. JW's openly admit they're out to convert as many people as possible, it's one of the most important parts of their belief system. Even in this day and age, there is an absolute fortune tied up in religion. If we were to distribute all of the money and land etc owned by all the religions in the world, it'd sort out every single problem in an instant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 People, who try to force their atheist beliefs upon God Botherers are as bad as they god botherers they try to disprove, IMO. I'm not religious, i'm probably agnostic, and creationism is bonkers, but if people want to have "faith" and believe in such things, then so be it. It's their choice. I don't see why we have to PROVE them wrong. If they are doing no harm, leave them to their beliefs. They are doing harm. They perpetuate idiocy and ignorance. Julie loves preaching on here from the Jehovahs mumbo-jumbo, and it's clearly with the aim of making people go 'Ah... maybe she's right'. And that's dangerous. People should not be encouraged to believe this shit. It stops people thinking. Selling lies to people to control them... we shouldn't accept that. It's fraud. That why it has to be combatted and wiped clean from the face of the earth. a very extreme view that Chinders, and not one i can share. Some religios practice can be seen as harmful in some ways I guess, and otjers not, and actually some can be benficial. There are those who want to believe, and if they want to believe for their own reasons of faith or comfort, then that should be their choice. What you seem to be advocating is outlawing all religion, as it isn't based in "fact". OK, creationism isn't based in fact, but much religion has a hisotrical context based upon sound values and morals and principles (some shit ones too granted) and to outlaw could be harmful and detrimental IMO, and i see no reason to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 Exactly. It's the arrogance of the "aggressively atheist" that bugs me. Anyway, after you've summed it up so, I think it's time for me to steer clear of this rather unpleasant thread now. good idea fella. I tend to steer clear of these threads, as it's just the same old faces trying to ram their opinions down others throats. Live and Let live. :nod: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 That why it has to be combatted and wiped clean from the face of the earth. :shock: This could be taken in a very bad way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 some pretty good things have come from religion and it's not all bad. Architecture, Art & Music being three things. Morally at least some stories in the bible are actually very important and whilst a lot of the bible is obviously backward, you cannot argue that some of the parables are stories with a very important message. Most of the time it's "don't be a harsh dickhead" but a message that needs pointing out none the less. The thing that annoys me more and more is when rappers and various musical artists "thank god" for getting them where they are.....if that's the case, then isn't god entitled to your royalties you rich hypocritical bastards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 It's not the fact that it isn't based on fact, as much as that it tries to stop facts (ie science) from advancing understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 Julie loves preaching on here from the Jehovahs mumbo-jumbo, and it's clearly with the aim of making people go 'Ah... maybe she's right'. Well presumably if everything I have said is Mumbo Jumbo then no one would listen anyhow, so why be concerned... The fact that I have stated quite categorically that JWs have been telling people for many many decades, not just in the past few months, when there has been so much condemnation of the Catholic Church, as shown in the Bible. mankind will indeed turn on religion and strip her of her power & wealth appears to have completely passed you by. In the same way it was argued that Stalin used Atheism as a means to an end ....you cannot tar all faith with the same brush..it has been also misused as a means to an end! If everyone practiced Christianity as it was intended then there would be no wars and people would look after each other as we are commanded to love our neighbour. It is men who have twisted those beleifs to fight wars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondaken Posted April 27, 2010 Share Posted April 27, 2010 That why it has to be combatted and wiped clean from the face of the earth. Hmm, where have I heard tha before? Oh, that's right, throughout history. This is called discrimination against all people of faith, are you sure you want to go there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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