Is there intelligent life out there ?

[Jondaken]

It's not the fact that it isn't based on fact, as much as that it tries to stop facts (ie science) from advancing understanding.

What part of religion, that is my religion, Christianity, is against science. This keeps popping up in this thread, and ive noidea where you are getting that idea from.

[Risso]

That why it has to be combatted and wiped clean from the face of the earth.

This is called discrimination against all people of faith, are you sure you want to go there?

Absolutely. I don't want the people themselves wiped out, just their primitive and witless ideas. Start by banning it in schools.

[Chindie]

a very extreme view that Chinders, and not one i can share.

Some religios practice can be seen as harmful in some ways I guess, and otjers not, and actually some can be benficial.

There are those who want to believe, and if they want to believe for their own reasons of faith or comfort, then that should be their choice.

What you seem to be advocating is outlawing all religion, as it isn't based in "fact".

OK, creationism isn't based in fact, but much religion has a hisotrical context based upon sound values and morals and principles (some shit ones too granted) and to outlaw could be harmful and detrimental IMO, and i see no reason to do it.

All religious practise is harmful, as it all encourages thought that isn't right (by which I mean it encourages people to believe lies rather than provable evidencable understanding), and controls people in a manner unnecessary, and encourages people to believe in lies rather than discover truth. It is rank and file harmful. Yes some is more harmful than others, but to the core it is doing harm.

Religion never stays as an individuals choice. It seeks to spread it's virus. That is why it is organised and has all the plethora of crap attached. It seeks to coerce and infect. I would argue (and do, often) that an individuals choice is almost never solely their own when it comes to this, because anyone looking at the facts of the matter and believing the Bible, or whatever, is clearly under some form of influence, be that a lack of understanding on their part (or idiocy), or perhaps more likely the clawing hand of the church praying on their mind.

I've said before I would ban religion given the power. Certainly I'd stop it's teaching in schools and actively combat it in them. And yes a lot of it is because it is lies. Simple stories for simple people. We're not simple people anymore. We understand things, we endeavour to know more, and that is right. Religion says 'Don't ask questions, all you need to know is here'. That's abhorrent.

There may be smidgens of fact in the 'holy' texts. All that does is provide a veil of legimacy to lies. Whatever good is in it cannot seperated from the rest that is downright wrong.

And whatever good is in does not need to come from it. Morality is not born of the bible, or the qur'an, or whatever. Morality is human, it is born of nature and our nurture, and we started understanding it long before we started to read this rubbish. We can, and do, teach and live our lives rightly throughout the world without thinking god made it, or without referring to the ramblings of madmen translated umpteen times over centuries to such an extent that it seems absurd to think they are holy.

We do not need religion. We certainly should not accept it. We should not permit lies and deceipt and fraud to be taught to people, to keep them controlled and keep them compliant, and rake in money from the believers and control their lives and seek out others to pervade the myth.

[Jondaken]

That why it has to be combatted and wiped clean from the face of the earth.

This is called discrimination against all people of faith, are you sure you want to go there?

Absolutely. I don't want the people themselves wiped out, just their primitive and witless ideas. Start by banning it in schools.

So how do you go about changing 3 billion + peoples minds? With aggresion? Yep, that works doesnt it.

[Chindie]

That why it has to be combatted and wiped clean from the face of the earth.

Hmm, where have I heard tha before?

Oh, that's right, throughout history. This is called discrimination against all people of faith, are you sure you want to go there?

That's exactly where I want to go. I don't want to wage war against religion on anything other than a mental level, but it needs purging, for want of a better word.

Start with the children, nick an idea from the enemy, get them when their heads are soft, set them on a path that will make them more understanding, intelligent, learned people.

[Brumerican]

So....Aliens ? What's the deal ? Do they exist and are they to be trusted ?

[kidlewis]

a very extreme view that Chinders, and not one i can share.

Some religios practice can be seen as harmful in some ways I guess, and otjers not, and actually some can be benficial.

There are those who want to believe, and if they want to believe for their own reasons of faith or comfort, then that should be their choice.

What you seem to be advocating is outlawing all religion, as it isn't based in "fact".

OK, creationism isn't based in fact, but much religion has a hisotrical context based upon sound values and morals and principles (some shit ones too granted) and to outlaw could be harmful and detrimental IMO, and i see no reason to do it.

All religious practise is harmful

some religious principles and text isn't though.

[Jondaken]

So....Aliens ? What's the deal ? Do they exist and are they to be trusted ?

Having watched Mars Attacks the other day, im inclined to not roll out the red carpet when they arive.

[Chindie]

Well presumably if everything I have said is Mumbo Jumbo then no one would listen anyhow, so why be concerned...

People like to see patterns and some people are more gullible than others. It is mumbo jumbo but to some it'll sadly appeal because they don't have the knowledge to know otherwise or they have a predilection to enjoy fairy stories. It doesn't stop it being hateful mumbo-jumbo.

The fact that I have stated quite categorically that JWs have been telling people for many many decades, not just in the past few months, when there has been so much condemnation of the Catholic Church, as shown in the Bible. mankind will indeed turn on religion and strip her of her power & wealth appears to have completely passed you by.

You're doing it now! 'Look look look, the Jehovahs say this WILL happen, and look, it is! ...maybe it's all right, eh? Have a pamphlet, the hall is up the road on the second left'.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong.

In the same way it was argued that Stalin used Atheism as a means to an end ....you cannot tar all faith with the same brush..it has been also misused as a means to an end!

Yes, and that end is not good for humanity. Get rid of it.

If everyone practiced Christianity as it was intended then there would be no wars and people would look after each other as we are commanded to love our neighbour. It is men who have twisted those beleifs to fight wars

Yes, but what is the right example of Christianity? Theres a reason theres lots of cults of Christianity, it's because the books were written by simple men and simple men interpretted it. Earlier in this thread we couldn't even have an agreement on the same bloody passage. It's rubbish.

Men twisted those beliefs from the moment they made them, they came up with them and they put pen to paper. They wrote down fairy stories for simple people to control them thinking people would forever not know the mysteries of the world and would forever not understand how to live their lives. Sadly for them, we don't need it.

[Brumerican]

So....Aliens ? What's the deal ? Do they exist and are they to be trusted ?

Having watched Mars Attacks the other day, im inclined to not roll out the red carpet when they arive.

But then again E.T. paints a different story...It's swings and roundabouts.

[JulieB]

And like VT as most people in the UK do not follow a faith, have no beleif in a Sky Fairy as RISSO put's it, then is society a better place for it?

The answer is NO... we are left with Broken Britain.

It is the people who make up that society, who determine that society, it has little to do with the faith they follow. Although I would concede that men have used their so called beleifs to better their own evil ends, through history.

equally Stalinist Russian wasn't a better place for Stalin latching on to Atheism to impose his views.

I'm sure there are passifist Athiests in just the same way as there are passifist beleivers in God.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

If everyone practiced Christianity as it was intended then there would be no wars and people would look after each other as we are commanded to love our neighbour. It is men who have twisted those beleifs to fight wars

The problem here is men created it, so it was twisted from the off.

This god bloke you believe in has never, ever, ever bridged the gap between them and us. There is no proof he ever did, there isn't a single shred of evidence to be found to suggest it either. It was all made up by a select group of men. Only the powerful and wealthy were literate back then and they were the ones who created those stories.

It is no coincidence people buy into any crap that gets invented these days, because we aren't as gullible and weak minded as we once were.

And again, you haven't adressed the issue of how the new testament was plaigarised, but then christians tend to pick and choose their arguments.

[TheDon]

Exactly. It's the arrogance of the "aggressively atheist" that bugs me.

I'm not going to apologise for my aggressive atheism, it's something that needs to be done. People need to be challenged on their beliefs. Too much pussyfooting is done around religion when what's needed is to aggressively attack religion so people can see that it doesn't stand up to scruitiny, it doesn't have any evidence supporting it.

Saying that the bible has prophesied the events going on today is frankly ridiculous, ridiculous in the same way that Nostradamus' writings get dragged out every time something happens and events get shoehorned into them. It's a con in the same way that fortune tellers and psychics are cons. Say enough shit and eventually something is going to ring true, and even the stuff that doesn't will get twisted into something that does.

[Risso]

If there was no religion, there would be no atheism. People would just get on with doing whatever it is they do all day.

[Chindie]

And like VT as most people in the UK do not follow a faith, have no beleif in a Sky Fairy as RISSO put's it, then is society a better place for it?

The answer is NO... we are left with Broken Britain.

It is the people who make up that society, who determine that society, it has little to do with the faith they follow. Although I would concede that men have used their so called beleifs to better their own evil ends, through history.

equally Stalinist Russian wasn't a better place for Stalin latching on to Atheism to impose his views.

I'm sure there are passifist Athiests in just the same way as there are passifist beleivers in God.

Broken Britain is a media lie spun to give them something to talk about and politicians something to work towards fixing. The country is no more broke now than it ever has been (asides from the wallet department).

I'm not sure exactly what point you're raising to be honest. I don't claim that all societies ills are born of religion.

I simply claim that with religion gone we might have a much greater chance of bettering our future and seeing more advancements, and ultimately ending up with more intelligent better educated more understanding and analytical people in it.

You seem to be claiming that Britain would be a better place if we had more faith... forgive me if I say that's bollocks as well and as an attempt to undermine any argument I've made is, well... awful.

[kidlewis]

it has to be said though that people seem to tip toe around many other religions whilst Christianity and catholicism bears the brunt of the atheists anger. Whilst the catholic churchs stance on contraception and child abuse bemuse the majority of us, I can't help but think other religions have equally backward stances on things which ultimately need to change.

Africa isn't just being held back by western dominance, it's being held back by religion.

[Risso]

All religion is inherently wrong, but some cause a lot more unpleasantness than others. I particularly dislike Catholicism, Islam and the Watch Tower brigade.

[mjmooney]

it has to be said though that people seem to tip toe around many other religions whilst Christianity and catholicism bears the brunt of the atheists anger. Whilst the catholic churchs stance on contraception and child abuse bemuse the majority of us, I can't help but think other religions have equally backward stances on things which ultimately need to change.

Africa isn't just being held back by western dominance, it's being held back by religion.

I agree. No selectivity from me.

I'm with Roy Harper:

The Black Cloud of Islam

I'm sick to the teeth of the news on the screen

of hisbullah scum and jihad the obscene

whose men plant the bombs and then live feeling free

to watch women and children be killed on T.V.

which satan delivers a child a death curse

in the name of a worn out collection of verse

I've not read the book so I cannot recite

but I'd bet Salman Rushdie is just about right

underneath the black cloud of islam

What kind of publicity needs so much blood

that's not for some sad diabolical god

selling himself as a two-bit Macbeth

as the expert in sentencing cousins to death

and what kind of god can this be anyway

that you gotta prostrate to him five times a day

with hate in your heart and a gun in your hand

is force the only thing to understand

underneath the black cloud of islam?

and the butchers who've got all this blood on their hands

are the ones who need god to be stood where he stands

blessing this kidnapping, murder and war

with books written hundreds of ages before

and women in veils walking paces behind

doesn't sit easy in my kind of mind

it speaks of oppression and no other choice

that rigid compliance with the loudest voice

underneath the black cloud of islam

You can put a lead bullet clean through this guitar

'cos I'm not overjoyed with the story so far

sharing a world with the nutters of god

is as good as being six feet under the sod

words that are written are all here to stay

and these are the latest there are anyway

and I am the prophet so don't believe me

I'm the same as the old ones except that I'm free

to give you a piece of my mind which is this

you're the worst of jehovas blind witlessnesses

with your feet in the door of the deepest abyss

which is underneath, which is underneath, which is underneath

the black cloud of islam

[TheDon]

I can't help but think other religions have equally backward stances on things which ultimately need to change.

The only reason they aren't attacked as much is because Christianity is the main religion in this country, and the one people encounter the most.

I could write an essay on the issues with Islam, especially in Islamic states like the UAE and Saudi Arabia. I'd say they're far more backwards than Christianity and do a lot more harm, but I rarely meet anyone from there to argue the point with!

That some countries take a religious book as law frankly sickens me.

[Chindie]

Like the others I'm no fan of any of them either, I bare particular wrath for Christianity because I encounter it the most and have had it foisted on me the most, and it's also the one that has offended me personally the most.