Stevo985 Posted January 29, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 29, 2018 49 minutes ago, hogso said: If this were true you wouldn't be watching WWE and therefore would more than likely see the higher standard of women's wrestling. Yeah ok. But I think you understood the point anyway. The point is, as improved as women's wrestling is, is it really a big draw? Do people tune in to watch the women's wrestling? I don't think they do. And I think the reason is that the standard is quite clearly way below the men. Again the parallel I'd draw is football. The female game is much improved, gets more coverage, has come on leaps and bounds... but ultimately the standard is way below the mens and probably always will be, so the men's game is still the draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogso Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 With regards to WWE that's certainly true, they're really investing in the division and the in ring matches will continue to improve and impress, and I'm sure there will be more instances of women's matches being better than the men's in the future. The question of would it ever be a bigger draw than the men in WWE, yeah, there's no chance really. I'm sure the percentage of fans tuning in/subbing for women's matches will increase, but there's no chance they would ever, say, headline Wrestlemania. I would argue that that's more of a fault with how WWE book matches and build stars than with the women themselves and what they're capable of doing in the ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 It’s less cheesy now, I remember when young and Alundra Blaze was the big ladies star, it was all so slow and boring. It’s now really interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Spoiler I only got to watch the two Rumble matches as I set my alarm for 3pm thinking I would catch the mens rumble match so instead went back and watched the mens and skipped through the womens match. I thought it was fairly well booked. Nice to see Rey Mysterio back but I expected a few more surprises. I liked how they set up the old guard v the new guard and also Reigns and Cena v Nakamura and Balor. They teased a Reigns win and I think that meant the Nakamura win meant so much more. I really do hope AJ and Nakamura main event but more than likely we will see Reigns v Lesnar main event. Womans match I thought was pretty strong and some good spots. Ember Moon looked immense. The whole Ronda Rousey thing just felt awkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 2 hours ago, omariqy said: Hide contents I only got to watch the two Rumble matches as I set my alarm for 3pm thinking I would catch the mens rumble match so instead went back and watched the mens and skipped through the womens match. I thought it was fairly well booked. Nice to see Rey Mysterio back but I expected a few more surprises. I liked how they set up the old guard v the new guard and also Reigns and Cena v Nakamura and Balor. They teased a Reigns win and I think that meant the Nakamura win meant so much more. I really do hope AJ and Nakamura main event but more than likely we will see Reigns v Lesnar main event. Womans match I thought was pretty strong and some good spots. Ember Moon looked immense. The whole Ronda Rousey thing just felt awkward. Can’t argue with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 7 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Yeah ok. But I think you understood the point anyway. The point is, as improved as women's wrestling is, is it really a big draw? Do people tune in to watch the women's wrestling? I don't think they do. And I think the reason is that the standard is quite clearly way below the men. Again the parallel I'd draw is football. The female game is much improved, gets more coverage, has come on leaps and bounds... but ultimately the standard is way below the mens and probably always will be, so the men's game is still the draw. Draw is not the same thing as standard. The standard of the women’s wrestling is great imo. I’d rather watch Asuka vs Ember Moon than Lesnar v Reigns as the standard of wrestling (why I watch it) will be much much higher but the other boring charismaless heavyweight slog fest will be the bigger draw, but the better match? Not in a million years. Go back and watch the Takeover match of Bayley vs Sasha from a few years ago. It’s one of the best WWE matches of all time imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 29, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 29, 2018 24 minutes ago, Ingram85 said: Draw is not the same thing as standard. The standard of the women’s wrestling is great imo. I’d rather watch Asuka vs Ember Moon than Lesnar v Reigns as the standard of wrestling (why I watch it) will be much much higher but the other boring charismaless heavyweight slog fest will be the bigger draw, but the better match? Not in a million years. Go back and watch the Takeover match of Bayley vs Sasha from a few years ago. It’s one of the best WWE matches of all time imo. Ok. I disagree entirely, but there we go. Maybe the odd match is of a high standard but I'd the general standard is still miles behind the men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Spoiler The royal rumble let itself down with some stupid decisions. I know it was first royal rumble but the atmosphere was pretty dead fro the women's rumble until you daw the old faces like lots and Trish. Then the wierd part at the end with Rousey. Why did they even do that? They should have entered her in the rumble and the place would have been on fire. The ending was awkward and lame. The men's rumble was good but predictable. The suprise of hurricane bells. Geez that was a awesome suprise...not But seeing mysterio back was great. Was suprised EC3 and lashley were not used or the Dudley considering Philly is their city Overall id say meh.not the best give it a 6/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Best Rumble ppv in years IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogso Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 I enjoyed it a lot, and the women's rumble didn't seem out of place as the main event, although the finale (not of the match itself, of the event) left something to be desired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 And I still love Torrie Wilson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 29, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 29, 2018 God the Ronda Rousey bit was completely embarrassing. So awkward. And no reaction from the crowd at all. WWE crowds are so shit these days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ingram85 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Yeah it was proper cringeworthy. They could have done it on raw just as effectively and let Asuka have her historic moment. Also, I want to do very very naughty things to Kairi, Asuka and Becky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 9 hours ago, hogso said: I enjoyed it a lot, and the women's rumble didn't seem out of place as the main event, although the finale (not of the match itself, of the event) left something to be desired. I disagree, the fans were dead until LIta came in.Only when some of the old timers came in did crows get into into it. Then what was really annoying was women kept rolling out the ring I mean you was looking for a superstar and then you would be like are they out or in? what happened to her? The rousey part was terrible, very badly executed should have been saved for raw or have her enter at number 30 then have charlotte help get her eliminated form the rumble leading to their feud. what will also be interesting is carmella still has MITB, if Rousey wins are they going to seriously try tell us Carmella would have any chance in hell of beating Rousey? Its a mess if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 30, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 30, 2018 The Rousey bit was made worse by the women in the ring just standing there watching. Not even a hint of surprise on their face. The same goes for Cole and Stephanie. It’s like they weren’t even bothering to pretend it was a real shock. When Rousey points to the Wrestlemania sign and the crowd... don’t even flinch. Cringe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogso Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) What was weird about the Ronda thing was that she is well known for her very intense entrances in MMA. Seeing her do a quite jolly, and clearly nervous, jaunt down to the ring gave the impression that she was the least charismatic creature to ever grace the WWE ring. They should have just said 'Right Ronda, just pretend you're walking to the Octagon, and stare down Charlotte. Without taking your eyes off her, point at the damned sign'. What actually happened was quite laughable really. As for the fans, well, if you're looking to the crowd to excite you and heighten the in-ring product for you, I think that's probably indicative of a wider issue in regards to the WWE product and what fans expect from it. I said a few posts back about the NJPW crowd at their recent events, I love them - but if they stayed silent the whole time I really wouldn't care. It's certainly not something I'd complain about. Edited January 30, 2018 by hogso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I think the crowd are very important. Try watching Hogan v Rock from WM 18 on mute. Worst match of all time. That said I think the crowd for the Rumble was pretty good, although they expended a lot of energy on the men's Rumble which took a lot of nostalgia acts in the women's to rekindle them. How good a crowd are basically depends what city they are in nowadays. Chicago is still king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, hogso said: What was weird about the Ronda thing was that she is well known for her very intense entrances in MMA. Seeing her do a quite jolly, and clearly nervous, jaunt down to the ring gave the impression that she was the least charismatic creature to ever grace the WWE ring. They should have just said 'Right Ronda, just pretend you're walking to the Octagon, and stare down Charlotte. Without taking your eyes off her, point at the damned sign'. What actually happened was quite laughable really. I agree with this, rousey is known for her fierce and an intimidating facial expressions. the smiles and jollyness was so hilarously bad it did make you cringe. Like you said their was no shock at all. they should have had rousey take all three of them out there and then. the you would have had a holly shit chant going. that scene was terrible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 30, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted January 30, 2018 11 minutes ago, hogso said: As for the fans, well, if you're looking to the crowd to excite you and heighten the in-ring product for you, I think that's probably indicative of a wider issue in regards to the WWE product and what fans expect from it. What happens in the ring is the main source of entertainment of course, but you can't dismiss the effect of the crowd on how enjoyable something is. And that goes for any sporting event. It's a bit like football in that ultimately what happens in the ring should drive the crowd's reaction. A "bad crowd" is usually the product of a bad product. In this case it was because it was unbelievably awkward, so it's sort of a different issue. But I do think whenever I watch WWE these days, which isn't a whole lot, the crowd is just awful. There's no reaction to anything. I said earlier in the thread about the Stone Cold segment in Raw 25. There's just no reaction from the crowd at all. They all just sit there clapping politely. Stone Cold drops the stunner, drinks his beer and salutes the crowd and there's basically no reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogso Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 (edited) I think my viewpoint on the (I was going to say WWE but really it's) Western audiences at wrestling shows is skewed now, having watched far more Japanese wrestling in the last 12 months in fairness. I just don't expect a reaction from the crowd really, when perhaps previously I would have agreed with you without question. Case in point, your comment about the crowd clapping politely. Literally what the Japanese crowds do. I'll never forget watching a classic Kobashi v Misawa bout from either AJPW or NOAH. These guys wrestled a style referred to as 'King's Road' which is basically 'Strong styles' big brother. They hit hard, slam hard, take insane bumps on the head and neck, it's crazy. This particular match (from 2003, I think, so probably NOAH and not AJPW) Misawa Tiger Suplexes Kobashi off the entrance ramp to the floor. It's insane. A western crowd would have been going mad, holy shit chants, what the **** chants, you name it. In Japan though...one guy in the crowd slowly stands up with his mouth wide open in disbelief. It's brilliant. On the other hand, if I watch a PWG show, the (tiny) crowd there is fantastic and really does make a massive difference. I suppose the point I should have made is that I didn't really look at the Rumble crowd reactions yesterday as it's not something I immediately expect any more. Edited January 30, 2018 by hogso Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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