TrentVilla Posted April 12, 2010 Moderator Share Posted April 12, 2010 So I suppose it becomes an issue of do you trust him , which clearly a lot of people don't Leaving aside some of the more emotive references you made to rape of the poor and Fred West and the rather patronising 1927 style comments this is just about the key point. I don't trust Cameron, you are right. I don't think his figures add up, I don't like his back ground or what I suspect he stands for, I don't like how wishy washy he is on some of his policies (maybe that will change with the manifesto) and I don't like his side kick Gideon. I don't like their desire to cut the tax death duties which seems a policy simply designed to benefit their own. I don't like their background and I question their understand or passion for helping the average person. I don't like the fact their figures don't appear to add up it makes me think they will make huge cuts to public spending, given the history of the party I think that fear is justified. Trust has to be earned and they simply haven't earned mine and he will have to do a lot more than ride a bike to convince me he is a man of the people. I'm no left wing labour traditionalist, I'm not a supporter of trade unions but I grew up in the later years of the Thatcher years so obviously my view on things is shaped by what I know. What I saw under the Torries turned my guts and since 97 what I've seen from Labour while they have largelly held the centre ground has appealed to my personal politics. That isn't to say I'm Labour for life but you can accuse me of only seeing what I want to see if you wish. I could easily level the same accusation at you. If Cameron or any Tory leader could convince me they would put the needs to the many ahead of the few they would have my vote. Labour currently have my vote because they have been the party most capable of demonstrating that to me despite Browns failings. If that changes then so be it I doubt the same can be said for you as you appear to be a firm Tory supporter no matter what. I'm against cuts in public spending, I'm against the changes the Tory party would make or I suspect they would make in the education sector but feel free to dismiss my opinions as being stuck in 1927 if you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 So I suppose it becomes an issue of do you trust him , which clearly a lot of people don't I'm against cuts in public spending, I'm against the changes the Tory party would make or I suspect they would make in the education sector but feel free to dismiss my opinions as being stuck in 1927 if you wish. cuts are inevitable because Labours current spending is unsustainable, unless they up taxes massively, as in ridiculous levels. Cuts are going to have to come, yes certain front line services can be protected. But if you are talking about reducing the deficit we have now then you are going to have to make cuts in the areas where there is the most investment. Cutting £1bn from £119bn NHS, Pensions, Welfare budget better or worse than cutting £1bn from a £25bn transport budget or £35bn protection budget? which is going to be more detrimental to that service? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 A Labour government would never cut the NHS budget. It annoys me how they're cutting money from pretty much all departments (after denying there would be cuts previously) except the NHS and I think education, which they've ring-fenced. The worst thing though is that they're actually increasing the foreign aid budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 So I suppose it becomes an issue of do you trust him , which clearly a lot of people don't I'm against cuts in public spending, I'm against the changes the Tory party would make or I suspect they would make in the education sector but feel free to dismiss my opinions as being stuck in 1927 if you wish. cuts are inevitable because Labours current spending is unsustainable, unless they up taxes massively, as in ridiculous levels. Cuts are going to have to come, yes certain front line services can be protected. But if you are talking about reducing the deficit we have now then you are going to have to make cuts in the areas where there is the most investment. Cutting £1bn from £119bn NHS, Pensions, Welfare budget better or worse than cutting £1bn from a £25bn transport budget or £35bn protection budget? which is going to be more detrimental to that service? Mate the National Debt is increasing at the rate of £447,575,342 PER DAY and at the current will reach 1.4 trillion in four years. 1 billion here or there is not going to make a difference, the scale of the cuts to come will be necessary but the only way to avoid a catastrophe. I've said it before but all of the parties are lying about what is just around the corner, probably because they rightly fear the wrath of the electorate when we finally wake up to what has been done to our country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 12, 2010 Moderator Share Posted April 12, 2010 Well in that case we are all **** and the colours the people bending us over are wearing are largelly irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Leaving aside some of the more emotive references you made to rape of the poor and Fred West and the rather patronising 1927 style comments this is just about the key point. Code Red : Sense of humour failure in isle 3 ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted April 12, 2010 Moderator Share Posted April 12, 2010 Leaving aside some of the more emotive references you made to rape of the poor and Fred West and the rather patronising 1927 style comments this is just about the key point. Code Red : Sense of humour failure in isle 3 ...... Or it just wasn't funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Leaving aside some of the more emotive references you made to rape of the poor and Fred West and the rather patronising 1927 style comments this is just about the key point. Code Red : Sense of humour failure in isle 3 ...... Or it just wasn't funny. Nope Code Red it is **** me lighten up fella ,this is the inter web Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 A Labour government would never cut the NHS budget. It annoys me how they're cutting money from pretty much all departments (after denying there would be cuts previously) except the NHS and I think education, which they've ring-fenced. The worst thing though is that they're actually increasing the foreign aid budget. they seriously think all £119bn of the NHS budget is well spent? come on. 7% pay rise for NHS management and 3% for nurses. You only need to look at the PFI farce of the University Hospital Coventry to see how much money was wasted through that deal. Merging two hospitals together, resulting in fewer beds than before and fewer staff. The amount spent on the PFI projects is set to cost £1.758bn more than 5 times the original costing set out in 2002. Originally the project was to cost £350m. All because a deal was done over a 35 year period and due to obvious errors somewhere along the line, it's lead to the PFI being able to hike up the payments and really screw over the NHS trust. Article on PFI Healthcare They even mention how the trust had to borrow £54m to pay the private contractor and was struggling to maintain payments before the hospital even opened. EDIT: Prof Jean Shaoul, of the Manchester Business School, said construction companies were making a 58% return on some of the NHS PFI schemes - a better return than on their main business. Seems like these private companies are getting some pretty sweet deals for these PFI projects. Also it appears that local services are being reduced in order to try to re-direct services to some PFI projects like University Hospital Coventry. There is already a campaign to try to stop patients being brought in from other trusts to the mental health wards at Walsgrave Hospital. Patients being bussed in and some being moved out to Warwick hospital, with as little as 2 hours notice. I know this because I have a friend in there at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Well in that case we are all **** and the colours the people bending us over are wearing are largelly irrelevant. Quite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 I'm **** pissed off. Why? Because the sectarian words removed (orange order) have pressured the UUP/DUP into having another joint unionist candidate in order to prevent a nationalist from having a fair shot. It's **** beyond a joke this country. Not even taking into account the fact we steal your tax money just to piss it away, why would anyone even bother with the union with these clearings in the woods in charge? It's a joke. A sectarian **** joke. (I know, Sinn Fein have been guilty of this before, but two wrongs doesn't make a right) I can understand disenchantment with you English when it comes to voting this time around, and fair enough. but really it feels as if a vote for anyone half decent would just be a **** waste in this country. Bleh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Ed Balls: He didn't really say that, did he? Oh, Ed, he did and the cameras are still rolling. D'oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Ed Balls: He didn't really say that, did he? Oh, Ed, he did and the cameras are still rolling. D'oh. What did he say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Ed Balls: He didn't really say that, did he? Oh, Ed, he did and the cameras are still rolling. D'oh. What did he say? Mandelson, when talking to Channel 4, said that 'the spirit of Blair' was looking down on their manifesto launch with that 'ear to ear' grin that he wore (sometimes) - it's towards the end of the vid on the C4 news website. Now Miliband junior is running with the Mandelson 'Blair plus' line about the Labour manifesto. Are they really going to run on that? I have a feeling that Gringo might have had a point (well, more than one but one specifically about Blair returning :winkold:). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Guess it will all go quite from labourites regarding VAT rises now Darling seems to be playing follow the leader by misleading the public regarding debt in the manifesto ... What is it about labour and lying ? Have they actually told the truth about anything yet ? what dId Balls Say ? And seeing how dumb the public appear to be , will it matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 Blair won't return, Labour can't be that daft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 what dId Balls Say ? As per the previous post, Tony, Balls was rather surprised with Mandy's comments to C4 news. Quite amusing (I thought Balls was supposed to be very much 'on the inside'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 what dId Balls Say ? As per the previous post, Tony, Balls was rather surprised with Mandy's comments to C4 news. Quite amusing (I thought he was very much 'on the inside'). Heer Dictator Mandelweasel is causing a bit of confusion it seems. Milliband is trying to squirm out of the VAT question being thrown at him. He has this weird semi smile going on at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 He has this weird semi smile going on at the moment. I don't think one can read much into that (seriously) as Miliband jnr always has that 'smile' going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted April 12, 2010 Share Posted April 12, 2010 He has this weird semi smile going on at the moment. I don't think one can read much into that (seriously) as Miliband jnr always has that 'smile' going on. yeah that's what I mean, it's as though he is slightly tapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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