leemond2008 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Just now, TrentVilla said: It doesn’t matter that punches missed and moving his head isn’t defending himself. And so moving your head and not getting hit is not defending yourself? I guess that standing upright with your ear muffs on and letting some rain punches onto your arms and round the side of your head is fine then? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 29, 2017 Author Share Posted October 29, 2017 9 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: I’m in a very small minority but I think the ref was right to stop the fight, although he was perhaps a few seconds premature. He was gone, he had no hope of winning either with a stoppage or in points, he was bleeding heavily, at least one eye was closed or closing and he was probably 4 or 5 punches away from being KO’d and potentially hurt. It is better to step in too soon than too late. I understand the frustration of the fans in the stoppage, I felt that at the time as well but I think it was the right decision. I think this is as wrong as can be to honest. He wasn't 'gone', he was rocked, there's a massive difference, he was still slipping punches when the referee jumped in which demonstrates how cognisant of the situation he was. You also never stop fights because someone has no 'chance', there's a certain level of valor and achievement in, for instance, going the distance, Takam would have been the first to do so. Joshua was slowing down somewhat and Takam was holding his own, this is heavyweight boxing, fights can turn on a punch, not saying it was likely at all but as I say, you just do not stop fights because someone is so far down on the cards and he has been rocked, if this was the case we'd have been robbed of some of the greatest fights and comebacks ever witnessed in boxing. The bottom line is that it was a pathetic stoppage and borderline suspicious. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 29, 2017 Author Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: It doesn’t matter that punches missed and moving his head isn’t defending himself. Sorry but the last point is wrong. Head and upper body movement is defence. Edited October 29, 2017 by Dr_Pangloss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 29, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: The bottom line is that it was a pathetic stoppage and borderline suspicious. In your opinion. In mine the suggestion it was in any way suspicious is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 29, 2017 Author Share Posted October 29, 2017 9 minutes ago, leemond2008 said: And so moving your head and not getting hit is not defending yourself? I guess that standing upright with your ear muffs on and letting some rain punches onto your arms and round the side of your head is fine then? I guess on that basis Pernell Whitaker didn't have good defence after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 29, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 29, 2017 As I said in my first post, I think the ref was right to stop it But was a few seconds premature in doing so. I think Froch summarises it quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 29, 2017 Author Share Posted October 29, 2017 23 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: As for AJ... The boy is still learning and learning in the ring as a champ which is a tough way to learn your trade. He has had so few professional fights compared to champions that had gone before him, both amature and professional, that was his 20th fight which is beyond belief. Is he the finished article? Far far from it but his development and progress is remarkable, unparrelled even. I personally think he will continue to develop. Don't mean to nitpick, but, assuming we are focusing just on heavyweights here I think this is massively OTT. Mike Tyson, becoming heavyweight champion at the age of 20 was far more precocious. Yes he had more pro fights than Joshua but was 7-8 years younger and had a much less distinguished amateur career. Muhammad Ali become undisputed heavyweight champion after 20 pro fights. Floyd Patterson won it at age 21, Joe Louis won it at age 23 in days where you'd fight like once a month. I think this sort of praise is just a tad too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 29, 2017 Author Share Posted October 29, 2017 Paulie and Al Bernstein nail it, not a sky cheerleader like Froch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Froch says the barbarians wanted the fight to carry on so they could see the knock out, nope sorry, I wanted to see it go on because Takam had fought bravely and deserved to see the final bell and deserved to be the first person to go 12 round with Joshua (he may have got KO'd but we will never know now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 29, 2017 Author Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) 2 minutes ago, leemond2008 said: Froch says the barbarians wanted the fight to carry on so they could see the knock out, nope sorry, I wanted to see it go on because Takam had fought bravely and deserved to see the final bell and deserved to be the first person to go 12 round with Joshua (he may have got KO'd but we will never know now) You can't really take anyone's opinion on the Sky payroll too seriously. Froch's commentary during fights leaves a lot to be desired as well. I didn't think it would be possible to miss Jim Watt LOL Edited October 29, 2017 by Dr_Pangloss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 29, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 29, 2017 Oh sorry, I didn’t realise Sky, the ref, Froch, the guy selling burgers were all part of some Heard conspiracy. Think I’ll bow out at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 29, 2017 Author Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Oh sorry, I didn’t realise Sky, the ref, Froch, the guy selling burgers were all part of some Heard conspiracy. Think I’ll bow out at this point. I'm still waiting to hear why moving your head doesn't count as defending yourself in boxing Edited October 29, 2017 by Dr_Pangloss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaDakota Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) Joshua in round 5 & 6 against Wlad was in a far worse state than Takam was at any point last night. Not sure Takams style/mannerisms help really as even when he isn't hurt/cut he is constantly squinting & dabbing at his own head which can give the impression he is in some discomfort . Watch the Parker fight and pretty much from the first bell he's at it Edited October 29, 2017 by LakotaDakota 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 Surely Joshua next fight will be pulev no? when wilder wins I'd like him to fight the winner of haye bellew. Parker should then fight whyte. if fury comes back I want him to fight wilder winner then gets joshua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 LTTP so I'll keep it brief but I feel that stoppage was there to protect Joshua's KO streak. I suspect some of the time outs to check Takam's cut may have happened to buy AJ some time too. He certainly won't get that kind of help if he's not in a British ring. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 49 minutes ago, The_Rev said: LTTP so I'll keep it brief but I feel that stoppage was there to protect Joshua's KO streak. I suspect some of the time outs to check Takam's cut may have happened to buy AJ some time too. He certainly won't get that kind of help if he's not in a British ring. Yes, very naive to think this wasn't a possibility. If you've seen a lot of boxing over the years you will realise these things happen fairly frequently. Also, it's hardly a conspiracy to suggest that people like Froch are there to try and manipulate opinions, he is on Sky's payroll and Joshua is their cash cow. Networks always over promote their marquee fighters and this very often filters through to commentary and punditry and not just advertising. This is very much how boxing broadcasts work, whether it's Sky, ITV, HBO or Showtime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 1 hour ago, The_Rev said: LTTP so I'll keep it brief but I feel that stoppage was there to protect Joshua's KO streak. I suspect some of the time outs to check Takam's cut may have happened to buy AJ some time too. He certainly won't get that kind of help if he's not in a British ring. Regardless of Joshua's shortcoming ,Takam never looked like he could win ,even though he performed a lot better than many thought he would . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted October 30, 2017 Author Share Posted October 30, 2017 52 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: Regardless of Joshua's shortcoming ,Takam never looked like he could win ,even though he performed a lot better than many thought he would . Whilst that's true I don't really understand the relevance of this point to anything. You don't stop fights because someone doesn't look like they are going to win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Indeed. It's heavyweight boxing, one punch can end a fight. I had AJ winning every round but I suspect that there was a lot invested in him winning by KO and the stoppage reflected that. Takam won't get a rematch either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 My point is if Takam never looked like winning, why would the referee stop the fight to in someway safeguard the future of Joshua and all those who've invested in that future ? Even if you think the stoppage premature ,maybe the referee thought different ,and lbh ,he does have the best view of a fighters condition . It's all conjecture at the end of the day . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts