kurtsimonw Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Unless one of them moves to RB.. dont even say it in jest I couldn't help myself in my defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 That doesn't make sense. Why would it be worthless? If this supposed shit football got us into 4th spot, then it shows its very effective and that the vast majority of the league cannot cope with it. the premier league is pretty poor these days though Is it? The Sky 4 dominate Europe, so dislodging one of them from their top four birth could not be argued away with such a daft argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 We don't play "shit football" anyway. When we're on form we're exciting to watch, entertaining, scintillating and all those other adjectives. Like any team, when we're off form, or not quite on form, we're not nearly so enjoyable to watch, but we have gained some resilience to help see us through on those occasions. I don't think we're ever "scintillating". Sometimes we're crudely efficient, and we have three players in Gabby, Young and Carew who are exciting to watch when playing well, but scintillating? No chance. When we're playing well it's all about quick balls out to the wings. When we're not, it's the same tactic which is easily negated when Young is off form, or hoofs up to Carew and Agbonlahor. With the money O'Neill has spent, we shouldn't be outplayed by the likes of Wigan, Blackburn and Burnley, but that's what happened. I'd love to see somebody who knows a thing or two about coaching football in the way it should be played given the reins at Villa Park, because under O'Neill we're just Leicester with more expensive players. We were outplayed by Blackburn? Are you serious? I was there, I watched it, I thought we were poor and the performance unacceptable, but at no point were we outplayed by Nova Bolton. The same with regards to Burnley, for 45 minutes, they had the run of the park. The second 45 was a different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 With the money O'Neill has spent, we shouldn't be outplayed by the likes of Wigan, Blackburn and Burnley, but that's what happened. Only wigan outplayed us and they also beat chelsea who have spent a hell of a lot more money than we have over the years. Burnley beat man u who have also spent a hell of a lot more money than us over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 That doesn't make sense. Why would it be worthless? If this supposed shit football got us into 4th spot, then it shows its very effective and that the vast majority of the league cannot cope with it. the premier league is pretty poor these days though Is it? The Sky 4 dominate Europe, so dislodging one of them from their top four birth could not be argued away with such a daft argument. yeah it is the sky 4 have previously dominated europe... liverpool arent exactly leading the way this season the others dominate coz of the money. but its a bit telling that beyond them its rare an english club does anything in europe. the standard in the premier league just isnt that good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Of course it’s rare, nobody else gets a look in for the Champions League and Europa League isn’t worth the effort financially and at the expense of chasing the elite. English clubs do dominate Europe. Liverpool mumping it up this season doesn’t change that. Chelsea will be there or there abouts, as will Man United. To break into the top four of this league, with the extensive financial advantages that the Sky Four has over the rest of the league would be an excellent achievement. If we got there, it would be because we were consistently good enough. Your argument for me lacks logic. Shit teams don’t finish 4th, bloody good ones do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trajan Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 The Mods must surely have the ability to find out the identity of each and every person who has said no and forcing them to say what manager they would like to see in MON's place. I'd say Roberto Martínez by the way. At about 1.00pm on Saturday would you mind posting "I'd say Harry Redknapp by the way"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P3te Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Of course it’s rare, nobody else gets a look in for the Champions League and Europa League isn’t worth the effort financially and at the expense of chasing the elite. English clubs do dominate Europe. Liverpool mumping it up this season doesn’t change that. Chelsea will be there or there abouts, as will Man United. To break into the top four of this league, with the extensive financial advantages that the Sky Four has over the rest of the league would be an excellent achievement. If we got there, it would be because we were consistently good enough. Your argument for me lacks logic. Shit teams don’t finish 4th, bloody good ones do. meh i think youre vastly overrating the standard of football in england is all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 3 haters out of 7! Jeez Risso, sting and Fran are quick off the mark. As a point of record 'CrackpotForeigner' i don't hate O'Neill. Indeed i find him entertaining with his funny manerisms before and after match interviews. I have however questioned many of his signings, which some have worked and others, well, have disappointingly failed miserably. You can probably say that of most managers, even the great Fergie and Wenger! I do however dislike the way O'Neill sets out our team to play and in my humble opinion, he doesn't make the best of who he has signed for one reason or another. When he finds a winning formular, he changes the team the following week and quite evidently has his 'favourites,' born out with his treatment of Reo-Coker! I also believe that with a more progressive thinking manager, we would have a better squad of players with more guile and technical ability with the amount of money O'Neill has been furnished with and just maybe, we might have been better in Cup and European matches as a consequence? Gained more success maybe? Nevertheless, it is more than fair to say that we have improved since O'Neill has become our manager, but then again, that would be the very least we would expect with the money spent! I just feel that O'Neill's system of play belongs more to the coaching book of the 1980-90s rather than being reflective of today's style of football. Thats why i believe O'Neill has taken us as far as he can and we do need a new manager who will instill a different type of system of play into our squad. I would like to see us playing a more diamond formation with the quality players to play that way. This would leave us less open through the middle and i dont think our wingers are good enough to carry a consistant threat, just as i don't think our central midfield partnership are good enough at the moment to allow us to play two out and out wingers! Only my humble opinion of course and as always, there will be many who will disagree with me. I just want the best for our club and although we are indeed in very safe hands with O'Neill, i think we could at, the very least, see more entertaining football coming from our team, with the same, or indeed, even more success! for what its worth on here, i can empathise with much of what you write.I too feel similar with your explanation of the Midfield & wingers. It seems to me the cm's are the scapegoats and the wide players get away with murder. I am not an advocate of removing O'Neill, but I am living in hope he will change his view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan. Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 ... i'd happily take "shit" football if it gets us top 4 or better at season end ... why? whats the point? The point would be that the club and team would be back amongst the very best club sides in the Country. The point would be that it would be a further improvement in the fortunes of the club on the pitch. The point would be that we'd be able to compete, or try to compete in the Champions league (which might be a money spoilt abomination in some ways, but it's still the place where the "elite" clubs get to play) and as a result attract even better players. The point would be that (sadly in a way) we'd earn more money and that would give us a better chance of continues improvement again. The point would be that it would be a return for Randy and MO'N and the players for putting in effort, money, time and thought into what they seek to achieve. But the best point of all is it would make me very happy. We don't play "shit football" anyway. When we're on form we're exciting to watch, entertaining, scintillating and all those other adjectives. Like any team, when we're off form, or not quite on form, we're not nearly so enjoyable to watch, but we have gained some resilience to help see us through on those occasions. But that's just my view. If some people can't see the point, I think that's their loss, personally. Last season when we were at our peak in terms of league position, I remember making a post saying "we're getting results playing poor, imagine when we start playing well..." it never happened. I've come to except it's just the way we play now. Maybe Downing will change things? we can hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sled Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 What I'd like to know is who this person is with a reputation as a friendless, brain-dead, toilet loitering, lying, egomaniac, nervy poor man's Shakin' Stevens who is apparently so worried about protecting his reputation. Sounds like my Dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trajan Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 What I'd like to know is who this person is with a reputation as a friendless, brain-dead, toilet loitering, lying, egomaniac, nervy poor man's Shakin' Stevens who is apparently so worried about protecting his reputation. Sounds like my Dad. We would all like to know that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Of course it’s rare, nobody else gets a look in for the Champions League and Europa League isn’t worth the effort financially and at the expense of chasing the elite. English clubs do dominate Europe. Liverpool mumping it up this season doesn’t change that. Chelsea will be there or there abouts, as will Man United. To break into the top four of this league, with the extensive financial advantages that the Sky Four has over the rest of the league would be an excellent achievement. If we got there, it would be because we were consistently good enough. Your argument for me lacks logic. Shit teams don’t finish 4th, bloody good ones do. meh i think youre vastly overrating the standard of football in england is all Have to agree with P3te completely. English league is average and predictable every year. Teams from below the top4 in Spain and italy would beat the English teams more times than an English team would win. In these countries its an achievement to finish top but in England you only have a chance when the Sky teams mess up and thats teh sad facts about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Of course it’s rare, nobody else gets a look in for the Champions League and Europa League isn’t worth the effort financially and at the expense of chasing the elite. English clubs do dominate Europe. Liverpool mumping it up this season doesn’t change that. Chelsea will be there or there abouts, as will Man United. To break into the top four of this league, with the extensive financial advantages that the Sky Four has over the rest of the league would be an excellent achievement. If we got there, it would be because we were consistently good enough. Your argument for me lacks logic. Shit teams don’t finish 4th, bloody good ones do. meh i think youre vastly overrating the standard of football in england is all Have to agree with P3te completely. English league is average and predictable every year. Teams from below the top4 in Spain and italy would beat the English teams more times than an English team would win. In these countries its an achievement to finish top but in England you only have a chance when the Sky teams mess up and thats teh sad facts about it On what basis can you make claims like that? Didn't the massive side of roma drawwith fulham recently? Last year didn't it take a last minute goal for AC Milan to beat a pompey side that outplayed them? It doesn't really matter what the standard is like in other countries, in England the top 4 are good sides that have spent lots of money and can attract the best players, finishing above any of them would be a massive achievement and not one a shit football club could achieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Of course it’s rare, nobody else gets a look in for the Champions League and Europa League isn’t worth the effort financially and at the expense of chasing the elite. English clubs do dominate Europe. Liverpool mumping it up this season doesn’t change that. Chelsea will be there or there abouts, as will Man United. To break into the top four of this league, with the extensive financial advantages that the Sky Four has over the rest of the league would be an excellent achievement. If we got there, it would be because we were consistently good enough. Your argument for me lacks logic. Shit teams don’t finish 4th, bloody good ones do. meh i think youre vastly overrating the standard of football in england is all Have to agree with P3te completely. English league is average and predictable every year. Teams from below the top4 in Spain and italy would beat the English teams more times than an English team would win. In these countries its an achievement to finish top but in England you only have a chance when the Sky teams mess up and thats teh sad facts about it On what basis can you make claims like that? Didn't the massive side of roma drawwith fulham recently? Last year didn't it take a last minute goal for AC Milan to beat a pompey side that outplayed them? It doesn't really matter what the standard is like in other countries, in England the top 4 are good sides that have spent lots of money and can attract the best players, finishing above any of them would be a massive achievement and not one a shit football club could achieve. Roma are just outside the relegation zone in Serie A and Europe isnt their priority. Last year Udinese beat Spurs easily and Pompey when they had all their players were thumped by Braga 3-0 Look at La Liga their is a team there with one of the best strike forces in the world that drew with Chelsea 2 weeks ago nad are in the relegation zone at home. Plus if wedo finish 4th i wouldnt be surprised if MON played the reserves in the Cl qualifiers anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sting Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 3 haters out of 7! Jeez Risso, sting and Fran are quick off the mark. As a point of record 'CrackpotForeigner' i don't hate O'Neill. Indeed i find him entertaining with his funny manerisms before and after match interviews. I have however questioned many of his signings, which some have worked and others, well, have disappointingly failed miserably. You can probably say that of most managers, even the great Fergie and Wenger! I do however dislike the way O'Neill sets out our team to play and in my humble opinion, he doesn't make the best of who he has signed for one reason or another. When he finds a winning formular, he changes the team the following week and quite evidently has his 'favourites,' born out with his treatment of Reo-Coker! I also believe that with a more progressive thinking manager, we would have a better squad of players with more guile and technical ability with the amount of money O'Neill has been furnished with and just maybe, we might have been better in Cup and European matches as a consequence? Gained more success maybe? Nevertheless, it is more than fair to say that we have improved since O'Neill has become our manager, but then again, that would be the very least we would expect with the money spent! I just feel that O'Neill's system of play belongs more to the coaching book of the 1980-90s rather than being reflective of today's style of football. Thats why i believe O'Neill has taken us as far as he can and we do need a new manager who will instill a different type of system of play into our squad. I would like to see us playing a more diamond formation with the quality players to play that way. This would leave us less open through the middle and i dont think our wingers are good enough to carry a consistant threat, just as i don't think our central midfield partnership are good enough at the moment to allow us to play two out and out wingers! Only my humble opinion of course and as always, there will be many who will disagree with me. I just want the best for our club and although we are indeed in very safe hands with O'Neill, i think we could at, the very least, see more entertaining football coming from our team, with the same, or indeed, even more success! for what its worth on here, i can empathise with much of what you write.I too feel similar with your explanation of the Midfield & wingers. It seems to me the cm's are the scapegoats and the wide players get away with murder. I am not an advocate of removing O'Neill, but I am living in hope he will change his view. Many thanks for your considered reply 'Tro.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 I think the people who say "No" are harsh, I'd at least wait till the end of the season to assess our options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barry'sboots Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 3 haters out of 7! Jeez Risso, sting and Fran are quick off the mark. As a point of record 'CrackpotForeigner' i don't hate O'Neill. Indeed i find him entertaining with his funny manerisms before and after match interviews. I have however questioned many of his signings, which some have worked and others, well, have disappointingly failed miserably. You can probably say that of most managers, even the great Fergie and Wenger! I do however dislike the way O'Neill sets out our team to play and in my humble opinion, he doesn't make the best of who he has signed for one reason or another. When he finds a winning formular, he changes the team the following week and quite evidently has his 'favourites,' born out with his treatment of Reo-Coker! I also believe that with a more progressive thinking manager, we would have a better squad of players with more guile and technical ability with the amount of money O'Neill has been furnished with and just maybe, we might have been better in Cup and European matches as a consequence? Gained more success maybe? Nevertheless, it is more than fair to say that we have improved since O'Neill has become our manager, but then again, that would be the very least we would expect with the money spent! I just feel that O'Neill's system of play belongs more to the coaching book of the 1980-90s rather than being reflective of today's style of football. Thats why i believe O'Neill has taken us as far as he can and we do need a new manager who will instill a different type of system of play into our squad. I would like to see us playing a more diamond formation with the quality players to play that way. This would leave us less open through the middle and i dont think our wingers are good enough to carry a consistant threat, just as i don't think our central midfield partnership are good enough at the moment to allow us to play two out and out wingers! Only my humble opinion of course and as always, there will be many who will disagree with me. I just want the best for our club and although we are indeed in very safe hands with O'Neill, i think we could at, the very least, see more entertaining football coming from our team, with the same, or indeed, even more success! for what its worth on here, i can empathise with much of what you write.I too feel similar with your explanation of the Midfield & wingers. It seems to me the cm's are the scapegoats and the wide players get away with murder. I am not an advocate of removing O'Neill, but I am living in hope he will change his view. Many thanks for your considered reply 'Tro.' I don't disagree with much of what you said. I do, however, think he has built a decent squad but, like you, don't think he uses it to its maximum capability. I am not sure your diamond suggestion would work with our players BUT it could be worth a try. Anything has to be better than sticking with the same front 6 and same formation that we have for the last 5 or 6 away games. I can take losing/drawing with poor teams if I thought MON was trying to turn it around and find a solution to our poor performances. He didn't for the last 15 games of last season and he hasn't done for our away games this season. It feels like groundhog day to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 3 haters out of 7! Jeez Risso, sting and Fran are quick off the mark. As a point of record 'CrackpotForeigner' i don't hate O'Neill. Indeed i find him entertaining with his funny manerisms before and after match interviews. I have however questioned many of his signings, which some have worked and others, well, have disappointingly failed miserably. You can probably say that of most managers, even the great Fergie and Wenger! I do however dislike the way O'Neill sets out our team to play and in my humble opinion, he doesn't make the best of who he has signed for one reason or another. When he finds a winning formular, he changes the team the following week and quite evidently has his 'favourites,' born out with his treatment of Reo-Coker! I also believe that with a more progressive thinking manager, we would have a better squad of players with more guile and technical ability with the amount of money O'Neill has been furnished with and just maybe, we might have been better in Cup and European matches as a consequence? Gained more success maybe? Nevertheless, it is more than fair to say that we have improved since O'Neill has become our manager, but then again, that would be the very least we would expect with the money spent! I just feel that O'Neill's system of play belongs more to the coaching book of the 1980-90s rather than being reflective of today's style of football. Thats why i believe O'Neill has taken us as far as he can and we do need a new manager who will instill a different type of system of play into our squad. I would like to see us playing a more diamond formation with the quality players to play that way. This would leave us less open through the middle and i dont think our wingers are good enough to carry a consistant threat, just as i don't think our central midfield partnership are good enough at the moment to allow us to play two out and out wingers! Only my humble opinion of course and as always, there will be many who will disagree with me. I just want the best for our club and although we are indeed in very safe hands with O'Neill, i think we could at, the very least, see more entertaining football coming from our team, with the same, or indeed, even more success! for what its worth on here, i can empathise with much of what you write.I too feel similar with your explanation of the Midfield & wingers. It seems to me the cm's are the scapegoats and the wide players get away with murder. I am not an advocate of removing O'Neill, but I am living in hope he will change his view. Many thanks for your considered reply 'Tro.' I don't disagree with much of what you said. I do, however, think he has built a decent squad but, like you, don't think he uses it to its maximum capability. I am not sure your diamond suggestion would work with our players BUT it could be worth a try. Anything has to be better than sticking with the same front 6 and same formation that we have for the last 5 or 6 away games. I can take losing/drawing with poor teams if I thought MON was trying to turn it around and find a solution to our poor performances. He didn't for the last 15 games of last season and he hasn't done for our away games this season. It feels like groundhog day to me! I have this distinct impression our opinions are falling on deaf ears on here.... Oh Dear. Perhaps we may get some north west intervention, telling us where we are going wrong.....oooppps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 3 haters out of 7! Jeez Risso, sting and Fran are quick off the mark. As a point of record 'CrackpotForeigner' i don't hate O'Neill. Indeed i find him entertaining with his funny manerisms before and after match interviews. I have however questioned many of his signings, which some have worked and others, well, have disappointingly failed miserably. You can probably say that of most managers, even the great Fergie and Wenger! I do however dislike the way O'Neill sets out our team to play and in my humble opinion, he doesn't make the best of who he has signed for one reason or another. When he finds a winning formular, he changes the team the following week and quite evidently has his 'favourites,' born out with his treatment of Reo-Coker! I also believe that with a more progressive thinking manager, we would have a better squad of players with more guile and technical ability with the amount of money O'Neill has been furnished with and just maybe, we might have been better in Cup and European matches as a consequence? Gained more success maybe? Nevertheless, it is more than fair to say that we have improved since O'Neill has become our manager, but then again, that would be the very least we would expect with the money spent! I just feel that O'Neill's system of play belongs more to the coaching book of the 1980-90s rather than being reflective of today's style of football. Thats why i believe O'Neill has taken us as far as he can and we do need a new manager who will instill a different type of system of play into our squad. I would like to see us playing a more diamond formation with the quality players to play that way. This would leave us less open through the middle and i dont think our wingers are good enough to carry a consistant threat, just as i don't think our central midfield partnership are good enough at the moment to allow us to play two out and out wingers! Only my humble opinion of course and as always, there will be many who will disagree with me. I just want the best for our club and although we are indeed in very safe hands with O'Neill, i think we could at, the very least, see more entertaining football coming from our team, with the same, or indeed, even more success! for what its worth on here, i can empathise with much of what you write.I too feel similar with your explanation of the Midfield & wingers. It seems to me the cm's are the scapegoats and the wide players get away with murder. I am not an advocate of removing O'Neill, but I am living in hope he will change his view. Many thanks for your considered reply 'Tro.' I don't disagree with much of what you said. I do, however, think he has built a decent squad but, like you, don't think he uses it to its maximum capability. I am not sure your diamond suggestion would work with our players BUT it could be worth a try. Anything has to be better than sticking with the same front 6 and same formation that we have for the last 5 or 6 away games. I can take losing/drawing with poor teams if I thought MON was trying to turn it around and find a solution to our poor performances. He didn't for the last 15 games of last season and he hasn't done for our away games this season. It feels like groundhog day to me! I posted in the match thread but i think it could go here also Only Man city have lost less away games than us so far. Only the 4 teams above us have won more away games than us so far. 5 teams have scored more goals than us away from home. 2 teams have let in less goals than us away from home. Performances may not always be pretty for the whole 90 minutes but i don't think we've reached panic stations just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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