PL: Burnley a Ratings & Reactions 2009/11/21

[dappadan]

Absolutely rubbish. MON is a disgrace, really needs sacking, a total abortion of a selection. Why NRC - the pettiness must end now.

Carew was anonymous. We should've played 451, Carew did well vs Bolton but has been terrible the rest of the season - he should earn a place. 451 all the way - if he wants to play Carew, fine, but must therefore drop one of milner , Young or Gabs.

Wolves Away, Wigan at home, Blackburn away, today, West Ham away - we've accumulated 2 points out of 15 - that's due to retarded tactics - I've said it before and I'll say it again why beat Liverpool and Chelsea when you can't beat this dross. If we'd have played 451 with NRC in the centre - we'd have mostly have won. if we're struggling then go 442.

We'll never acheive anything with him in charge. |He's done well - but enough is enough - the performance was predictable from 14:00

We are 4th in the league and you want the manager sacked?

I **** despair

[HJ]

defensively he's quite poor which people accepted at the start of the season, then now they realise he actually never controls or dictates a game, now they see defensively he's good. He's just a really average Gareth Barry.

What? Who on earth has thought Petrov is defensively poor? His defensive play combined with not wasting the ball is the whole reason he won player of the year last year for gods sake.

Yeah he's good zonally marking, last year he just dropped in front of the defence and intercepted passes, physically that's not hard and requires a good brain, which Petrov has, and then he didn't waste the ball and picked good passes to our extra men in the midfield. A perfect position for him.

But He's playing in a 4-4-2 where you need to get tight to your man in the midfield which he's not very good at doing, He drops off their midfield far too much which allows the opposition to carry the ball forward and put pressure on us. He needs to get into their faces, run around more but physically he's not capable of doing that for 90 minutes. The amount of time teams have when they play against Petrov is stupid because he doesn't like to close people down, he invites pressure.

Its very difficult if not impossible to play a DM role perfectly in 4-4-2 though, NRC himself talked about it during the 07-08 season. Petrov does have problems with runners although I don't think his closing down is as bad as you suggest. For NRC the problem was that he was sometimes too keen to run around and make the defensive plays and broke our shape and left the defenders without support where it should have been, that and him running in to dead ends giving them counter attacking chances although he's improved in that aspect since.

[commander]

People may think I'm overreacting - but I knew the performance from 14;00 - come on people wake up 451 with NRC in the centre and 2 decent players alongside him - Petrov and one of Sidwell, Downing/ Milner, then Gabbys up top with Young and Milner on the flank (or Downing if Milner plays centrally) and we'll protect the defense, dominate the midfield and generally force ourdselves on the opposition , take control of the game and get the deserved result. Which succesful team plays with 2 strikers (one of whom is totally imobile) and 2 wingewrs? Then DOESN'T play a defensive blocker in the centre?

Come onm lads this is basic stuff.

O'Neill won't chnage - either he does chnage or he goes and lets someone who will solve the basics.

[Hanky]

I voted Heskey because he was pretty much the only positive apart from the draw and Downing coming on.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

defensively he's quite poor which people accepted at the start of the season, then now they realise he actually never controls or dictates a game, now they see defensively he's good. He's just a really average Gareth Barry.

What? Who on earth has thought Petrov is defensively poor? His defensive play combined with not wasting the ball is the whole reason he won player of the year last year for gods sake.

Yeah he's good zonally marking, last year he just dropped in front of the defence and intercepted passes, physically that's not hard and requires a good brain, which Petrov has, and then he didn't waste the ball and picked good passes to our extra men in the midfield. A perfect position for him.

But He's playing in a 4-4-2 where you need to get tight to your man in the midfield which he's not very good at doing, He drops off their midfield far too much which allows the opposition to carry the ball forward and put pressure on us. He needs to get into their faces, run around more but physically he's not capable of doing that for 90 minutes. The amount of time teams have when they play against Petrov is stupid because he doesn't like to close people down, he invites pressure.

Its very difficult if not impossible to play a DM role perfectly in 4-4-2 though, NRC himself talked about it during the 07-08 season. Petrov does have problems with runners although I don't think his closing down is as bad as you suggest. For NRC the problem was that he was sometimes too keen to run around and make the defensive plays and broke our shape and left the defenders without support where it should have been, that and him running in to dead ends giving them counter attacking chances although he's improved in that aspect since.

That's the thing though, if you play a 4-4-2 and you have two Out and out wingers, your first pick in midfield surely has to be a holding midfielder who defensively is very good. That is Reo-Coker. Then you pick around that, personally I'd like to see Delph, he gets around the pitch well, he is a forward thinking player and with freedom to get forward will get goals and create chances in my opinion. Petrov doesn't really fit in a 4-4-2 style that we play to me, because he isn't an attacking creative midfielder, nor is someone who will break up attacks, consistantly get around the pitch and do all the dirty work, He's a luxury I don't believe we can afford.

[HJ]

defensively he's quite poor which people accepted at the start of the season, then now they realise he actually never controls or dictates a game, now they see defensively he's good. He's just a really average Gareth Barry.

What? Who on earth has thought Petrov is defensively poor? His defensive play combined with not wasting the ball is the whole reason he won player of the year last year for gods sake.

Yeah he's good zonally marking, last year he just dropped in front of the defence and intercepted passes, physically that's not hard and requires a good brain, which Petrov has, and then he didn't waste the ball and picked good passes to our extra men in the midfield. A perfect position for him.

But He's playing in a 4-4-2 where you need to get tight to your man in the midfield which he's not very good at doing, He drops off their midfield far too much which allows the opposition to carry the ball forward and put pressure on us. He needs to get into their faces, run around more but physically he's not capable of doing that for 90 minutes. The amount of time teams have when they play against Petrov is stupid because he doesn't like to close people down, he invites pressure.

Its very difficult if not impossible to play a DM role perfectly in 4-4-2 though, NRC himself talked about it during the 07-08 season. Petrov does have problems with runners although I don't think his closing down is as bad as you suggest. For NRC the problem was that he was sometimes too keen to run around and make the defensive plays and broke our shape and left the defenders without support where it should have been, that and him running in to dead ends giving them counter attacking chances although he's improved in that aspect since.

That's the thing though, if you play a 4-4-2 and you have two Out and out wingers, your first pick in midfield surely has to be a holding midfielder who defensively is very good. That is Reo-Coker. Then you pick around that, personally I'd like to see Delph, he gets around the pitch well, he is a forward thinking player and with freedom to get forward will get goals and create chances in my opinion. Petrov doesn't really fit in a 4-4-2 style that we play to me, because he isn't an attacking creative midfielder, nor is someone who will break up attacks, consistantly get around the pitch and do all the dirty work, He's a luxury I don't believe we can afford.

Well I have seen NRC in 4-4-2 enough to think that the difference would not be significant in my opinion, he has his own weaknesses.

[lmarsha_926]

Burnley's results at home this season

Burnley 1 - 0 Manchester United

Burnley 1 - 0 Everton

Burnley 3 - 1 Sunderland

Burnley 2 - 1 Birmingham City

Burnley 1 - 3 Wigan Athletic

Burnley 2 - 0 Hull City

Burnley 1 - 1 Aston Villa

Shows what a tough place it is to go.

[deaceydeaceyaggro]

Heskey on, Luke Young off hahahahaaaa.

Here we go, Heskey for Luke Young.

heskey on for luke young...

**** retard...

Lol.

Heskey on for Luke Young.

Never ceases to amaze me ol' Martin.

Heskey on for Luke. MONs really going for it.

quality.

Why don't people wait before reacting so badly?

yea, its awesome... 3 goals in, what is it, 24 games? (i stopped counting after 2 in 20)...

cant wait for his next goal in 10 games...

You almost sound disappointed he scored.

[AVFC-Prideofbrum]

defensively he's quite poor which people accepted at the start of the season, then now they realise he actually never controls or dictates a game, now they see defensively he's good. He's just a really average Gareth Barry.

What? Who on earth has thought Petrov is defensively poor? His defensive play combined with not wasting the ball is the whole reason he won player of the year last year for gods sake.

Yeah he's good zonally marking, last year he just dropped in front of the defence and intercepted passes, physically that's not hard and requires a good brain, which Petrov has, and then he didn't waste the ball and picked good passes to our extra men in the midfield. A perfect position for him.

But He's playing in a 4-4-2 where you need to get tight to your man in the midfield which he's not very good at doing, He drops off their midfield far too much which allows the opposition to carry the ball forward and put pressure on us. He needs to get into their faces, run around more but physically he's not capable of doing that for 90 minutes. The amount of time teams have when they play against Petrov is stupid because he doesn't like to close people down, he invites pressure.

Its very difficult if not impossible to play a DM role perfectly in 4-4-2 though, NRC himself talked about it during the 07-08 season. Petrov does have problems with runners although I don't think his closing down is as bad as you suggest. For NRC the problem was that he was sometimes too keen to run around and make the defensive plays and broke our shape and left the defenders without support where it should have been, that and him running in to dead ends giving them counter attacking chances although he's improved in that aspect since.

That's the thing though, if you play a 4-4-2 and you have two Out and out wingers, your first pick in midfield surely has to be a holding midfielder who defensively is very good. That is Reo-Coker. Then you pick around that, personally I'd like to see Delph, he gets around the pitch well, he is a forward thinking player and with freedom to get forward will get goals and create chances in my opinion. Petrov doesn't really fit in a 4-4-2 style that we play to me, because he isn't an attacking creative midfielder, nor is someone who will break up attacks, consistantly get around the pitch and do all the dirty work, He's a luxury I don't believe we can afford.

Well I have seen NRC in 4-4-2 enough to think that the difference would not be significant in my opinion, he has his own weaknesses.

Well I've seen enough from simple results this season, You can say it's peace cup but you can't deny that in the peace cup,

Sidwell and Petrov - Lost first game.

Sidwell and Petrov - Losing first game after 20 minutes.

Reo-Coker and Sidwell - Win that game 3-1.

Coker and Sids - Beat Porto

Coker and Sids - draw with Juve.

Only game they've played as a partnership to date we win 5-1. They should at least be given a chance.

[deaceydeaceyaggro]

so, anyone interested in giving a few match reactions and ratings then, or shall we bicker like schoolgirls all evening?

warnock mom for us again today - i think he is class and probably the best signing mon has made in his time at villa.

Well you would say that now seeing how you sneered at the substitution (that earned us a point). :winkold:

edit - apologies. I mistook you for Rantin.

:winkold:

[deaceydeaceyaggro]

People may think I'm overreacting - but I knew the performance from 14;00 - come on people wake up 451 with NRC in the centre and 2 decent players alongside him - Petrov and one of Sidwell, Downing/ Milner, then Gabbys up top with Young and Milner on the flank (or Downing if Milner plays centrally) and we'll protect the defense, dominate the midfield and generally force ourdselves on the opposition , take control of the game and get the deserved result. Which succesful team plays with 2 strikers (one of whom is totally imobile) and 2 wingewrs? Then DOESN'T play a defensive blocker in the centre?

Come onm lads this is basic stuff.

O'Neill won't chnage - either he does chnage or he goes and lets someone who will solve the basics.

Get a grip man. We're sitting in 4th place in the Premier League. Please stop this over the top hysterical nonsense.

[The_Lions_Roar]

People may think I'm overreacting - but I knew the performance from 14;00 - come on people wake up 451 with NRC in the centre and 2 decent players alongside him - Petrov and one of Sidwell, Downing/ Milner, then Gabbys up top with Young and Milner on the flank (or Downing if Milner plays centrally) and we'll protect the defense, dominate the midfield and generally force ourdselves on the opposition , take control of the game and get the deserved result. Which succesful team plays with 2 strikers (one of whom is totally imobile) and 2 wingewrs? Then DOESN'T play a defensive blocker in the centre?

Come onm lads this is basic stuff.

O'Neill won't chnage - either he does chnage or he goes and lets someone who will solve the basics.

P.S What on earth is a defensive blocker?

[YLN]

Absolutely rubbish. MON is a disgrace, really needs sacking, a total abortion of a selection. Why NRC - the pettiness must end now.

Carew was anonymous. We should've played 451, Carew did well vs Bolton but has been terrible the rest of the season - he should earn a place. 451 all the way - if he wants to play Carew, fine, but must therefore drop one of milner , Young or Gabs.

Wolves Away, Wigan at home, Blackburn away, today, West Ham away - we've accumulated 2 points out of 15 - that's due to retarded tactics - I've said it before and I'll say it again why beat Liverpool and Chelsea when you can't beat this dross. If we'd have played 451 with NRC in the centre - we'd have mostly have won. if we're struggling then go 442.

We'll never acheive anything with him in charge. |He's done well - but enough is enough - the performance was predictable from 14:00

This post should be quoted often to show the fickleness and lack of perspective among our fans. And I'm positive commander isn't completely alone in this. I'm sure Villa Park on a Saturday is full of these characters, for want of a better word.

Fourth spot. Long may it continue

[HeathVillain]

The problem is that the central midfield is super critical to any football team. We are strong everywhere else but because Petrov/Sidwell are so weak as a pair the negative impact on the rest of the team is immense. We can't get a foot in, get the ball down and play. These 2 run around like headless chickens, contribute little and the result is the defense comes under pressure and the attacking players can't get the ball.

Selecting Petrov ahead of Reo-Coker in CM after a 5-1 win is a bizzare to say the least and I am baffled that it is so clear to everyone that the team functions better with Reo-Coker in the team but O'Neil does not see it. Baffled.

[villadude]

dominate the midfield and generally force ourdselves on the opposition , take control of the game and get the deserved result. Which succesful team plays with 2 strikers (one of whom is totally imobile) and 2 wingewrs? Then DOESN'T play a defensive blocker in the centre?

Come onm lads this is basic stuff.

O'Neill won't chnage - either he does chnage or he goes and lets someone who will solve the basics.

Is your name Ian by any chance?

:winkold:

[Big_John_10]

Well I pray that when I graduate from comedy school I'll be as witty as you and post comedy gold between moans on the match thread.

Graduate? Doubt it.

There's that wit i envy so much! Tell us something else to be thankful for please

I have a feeling that had NRC played and we got a point i'd be reading a lot more posts saying what a decent point it was against a team who have an excellent record at home.

[Guest Ricardomeister]

From what I saw we were outplayed by Burnley for much of the match and were pretty lucky to come away with a point. No shots on target in the first 45 minutes is not good enough for a team with supposed top 4 aspirations. These are the sort of teams (Burnley, Wolves, Blackburn, West Ham, Wigan) that we need to beat if we want the top 4. I am not convinced that, as a team, we really want it.

We improved a bit after the break but there were too many people who did not seem up for it today. We are simply not consistent enough, and our manager is not tactically astute enough, to take advantage of the oppportunities we have been given by the likes of Citeh and the bin dippers.

In the next 5 and a half weeks we play Spuds, Man Ure, Sunderland, Arsenal and the bin dippers and I would be surprised if we are in the top 6 by the end of December.

I would have played NRC today as at least we would be more difficult to overrun in midfield as we, again, often were today. That said, whoever we play in central midfield is the weak link compared to the other top clubs.

[deaceydeaceyaggro]

The problem is that the central midfield is super critical to any football team. We are strong everywhere else but because Petrov/Sidwell are so weak as a pair the negative impact on the rest of the team is immense. We can't get a foot in, get the ball down and play. These 2 run around like headless chickens, contribute little and the result is the defense comes under pressure and the attacking players can't get the ball.

Selecting Petrov ahead of Reo-Coker in CM after a 5-1 win is a bizzare to say the least and I am baffled that it is so clear to everyone that the team functions better with Reo-Coker in the team but O'Neil does not see it. Baffled.

We're always going to be weaker than most in centre midfield because we play with 2 wingers. It puts too much pressure on the two centre midfield players because they're doing the work of three players. One solution would be to drop one winger and play another centre midfielder. The easier solution would be to drop the terminally ineffective Sidwell, and bring in Downing to play in Gareth Barry's old role.

I think we'd be much stronger with that change.

[Santa_Rosa]

I think MON should play NRC. I don't think Heskey is good enough for us, and he doesn't suit our style of play, but he works hard IMO and think he is unfairly cast as scapegoat too often. I'm frustrated by the way MON seems (and I emphasise seems, as we can't know) to have players who are his favourites and undroppable (specifically Young and Petrov, although now Downing is more or less back, this may change).

I'm delighted with his transfer signings on the whole, happy that he is using his bench well now, pleased with the result today (there's no such thing as a bad away point in the Prem, and grinding one out when we play badly is a good thing), hopeful that Emile's goal will do wonders for his confidence and ecstatic that Downing made an appearance. I'm over the moon with 4th place.

I'm appalled that there are those amongst us that think MON is a disgrace and wants sacking. Absolutely **** appalled.

[HeathVillain]

The problem is that the central midfield is super critical to any football team. We are strong everywhere else but because Petrov/Sidwell are so weak as a pair the negative impact on the rest of the team is immense. We can't get a foot in, get the ball down and play. These 2 run around like headless chickens, contribute little and the result is the defense comes under pressure and the attacking players can't get the ball.

Selecting Petrov ahead of Reo-Coker in CM after a 5-1 win is a bizzare to say the least and I am baffled that it is so clear to everyone that the team functions better with Reo-Coker in the team but O'Neil does not see it. Baffled.

We're always going to be weaker than most in centre midfield because we play with 2 wingers. It puts too much pressure on the two centre midfield players because they're doing the work of three players. One solution would be to drop one winger and play another centre midfielder. The easier solution would be to drop the terminally ineffective Sidwell, and bring in Downing to play in Gareth Barry's old role.

I think we'd be much stronger with that change.

Totally agree. I would love to see Coker and Downing in CM. Coker as the defensive midfielder, breaking up the play and putting his foot in. Downing as the playmaker.

I just cannot see what Petrov and Sidwell are giving to this team at the moment and am amazed at how untouchable they are (Petrov in particular).