smetrov Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Not just on tonight's performance. But has MON done all that is humanly possible to make us great again ? - and can he possibly take us any further ?- in short is top 6 and cup run as good as it gets under MON - given the size of the club, the established top 4 , and the superior wealth of other clubs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Si. Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 That time of year again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Anyone expecting top 4 this year is off their rocker and is clearly expecting way too much. The big 4 are there for a reason, they've made themself a top club over the years and spent massively to stay there. Anyone thinking we can go from 16th to 4th in 4 years is living in a dream World. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Bottom line we won't be getting into the top 4 anytime soon with Beye, Heskey and Sidwell in the starting 11. We badly need a creative midfielder alongside Petrov in January. And looks like the golden age of playing 4-4-2 is over just as it quickly started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I think expecting to beat West Ham, Wolves or Wigan when you've spent the money we have, and with our manager saying he wanted to challenge for 4th place isn't asking much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanky Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Yes IMO. It's not that long ago we couldn't do anything away from home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I think expecting top 4 at this point in the randy era is probably too much regardless of who the manager is. Can MON take us further? No idea really, we are still an inconsistent team who seem to be able to match the top teams but completely throw games away against so called lesser teams. I think it would take more money and for us to be a more attractive option to players in order for us to break the top 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted November 4, 2009 Moderator Share Posted November 4, 2009 I still stand by my sig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I think expecting to beat West Ham, Wolves or Wigan when you've spent the money we have, and with our manager saying he wanted to challenge for 4th place isn't asking much. I don't really get this. I mean man u, chelsea, arsenal and liverpool have had poor results this season and they've spent more than we could dream of over the years and have very experienced managers. We should expect certain improvements but no team wins all the games the fans think they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I think expecting to beat West Ham, Wolves or Wigan when you've spent the money we have, and with our manager saying he wanted to challenge for 4th place isn't asking much. I don't really get this. I mean man u, chelsea, arsenal and liverpool have had poor results this season and they've spent more than we could dream of over the years and have very experienced managers. We should expect certain improvements but no team wins all the games the fans think they should. The teams you mention win more of those games than we do though. We're just not improving under O'Neill. Hopefully the penny is starting to drop that dull, uninspired football and 6th/7th place is all O'Neill is ever going to be capable of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I think expecting to beat West Ham, Wolves or Wigan when you've spent the money we have, and with our manager saying he wanted to challenge for 4th place isn't asking much. But surely, based on the money we've spent, we shouldn't be finishing top 4. There are probably 5 or so teams that've spent more money than we have in recent years. So surely 6th place is about best we can hope for going by this logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablopicasso Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 i personally think that the deficiencies in the team, are obvious to most... except the manager, who continues to shoehorn certain individuals into the team, to the detriment of performances, and ultimately, results... a lot of money spent on a whole load of mediocrity... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Even if we had no real competition from other teams and it was just us and the top 4 i think it would be too much to expect us to be in there. But when you take into account that everton have finished 5th the last 2 years and the things that spurs and man city are doing i don't think anyone could realisticly demand that we break into that top 4 this year. We'd all like to be there but it's an extremely difficult thing to do. Is th best approach to get rid of the manager every few years when it looks like we won't do it or should we try and continue to sustain a top 6 position and european football in the hope that we can gradually attract better players? I'm not sure myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 i don't think anyone could realisticly demand that we break into that top 4 this year. But this requires people being realistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Even if we had no real competition from other teams and it was just us and the top 4 i think it would be too much to expect us to be in there. But when you take into account that everton have finished 5th the last 2 years and the things that spurs and man city are doing i don't think anyone could realisticly demand that we break into that top 4 this year. We'd all like to be there but it's an extremely difficult thing to do. Is th best approach to get rid of the manager every few years when it looks like we won't do it or should we try and continue to sustain a top 6 position and european football in the hope that we can gradually attract better players? I'm not sure myself. You have to give a manager a reasonable amount of time and resources to prove he can build a team and get it to compete with the best. I think O'Neill's had the money, and at the end of this season will have had four full years. If he has improved us at the end of the season and at least given the top 4 and the cup competitions a real go, then I'd say he's earned the right to carry on. If on the other hand, the sort of football that we played tonight, and against Everton, Blackburn, Wolves and Wigan becomes the norm, and we finish 7th or lower, then I really do think it will be time to thank him for rescuing us from the mess O'Leary left, but to give somebody else a shot at bringing back the glory years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Even if we had no real competition from other teams and it was just us and the top 4 i think it would be too much to expect us to be in there. But when you take into account that everton have finished 5th the last 2 years and the things that spurs and man city are doing i don't think anyone could realisticly demand that we break into that top 4 this year. We'd all like to be there but it's an extremely difficult thing to do. Is th best approach to get rid of the manager every few years when it looks like we won't do it or should we try and continue to sustain a top 6 position and european football in the hope that we can gradually attract better players? I'm not sure myself. You have to give a manager a reasonable amount of time and resources to prove he can build a team and get it to compete with the best. I think O'Neill's had the money, and at the end of this season will have had four full years. If he has improved us at the end of the season and at least given the top 4 and the cup competitions a real go, then I'd say he's earned the right to carry on. If on the other hand, the sort of football that we played tonight, and against Everton, Blackburn, Wolves and Wigan becomes the norm, and we finish 7th or lower, then I really do think it will be time to thank him for rescuing us from the mess O'Leary left, but to give somebody else a shot at bringing back the glory years. You may be right, i'm a huge MON fan but i've never believed we wouldn't be able to bring another quality manager in. The thing is if we go down the route of just changing managers every few years i think we need to fall lucky enough to bring in a wonder manager that big teams don't want or someone who has the ability to find real gems or attract big names in the transfer market. There are of course positives for replacing the manager in like i said someone great may come in but then the downside is that we may continue to slump as the new manager builds his squad and that time may have seen us slowly build even more with consistent top 6 finishes. It's a tough call and one i really don't know which would bring more effective results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_John_10 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 I think expecting to beat West Ham, Wolves or Wigan when you've spent the money we have, and with our manager saying he wanted to challenge for 4th place isn't asking much. But surely, based on the money we've spent, we shouldn't be finishing top 4. There are probably 5 or so teams that've spent more money than we have in recent years. So surely 6th place is about best we can hope for going by this logic. Missed this the first time round but agree with it. Surely in the same argument you can't demand to beat teams because we've spent more than them and demand to finish higher than teams who have spent more than us. If money is the deciding factor then we can't expect top 4 football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
granville Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Risso Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 You may be right, i'm a huge MON fan but i've never believed we wouldn't be able to bring another quality manager in. The thing is if we go down the route of just changing managers every few years i think we need to fall lucky enough to bring in a wonder manager that big teams don't want or someone who has the ability to find real gems or attract big names in the transfer market. There are of course positives for replacing the manager in like i said someone great may come in but then the downside is that we may continue to slump as the new manager builds his squad and that time may have seen us slowly build even more with consistent top 6 finishes. It's a tough call and one i really don't know which would bring more effective results. I think that thinking is a hang up from Ellis days to be honest, when after 3-4 years, managers would normally get tired of working with him, and he'd stop funding them. Lerner is a totally different kettle of fish, He's shown no sign in reducing his financial commitment to Villa, yet I have to say that I don't think O'Neill is providing value for his money. If we continue in this mediocre vein, you have to say how on earth is O'Neill going to provide the impetus to get us into the top 4? He either can't or won't bring top players in, and that won't change with another 6th/7th placed finish if we're miles behind the top 4. We'd be better in that situation looking for a new manager who just may have the ideas to take us on that extra step. It's always a risk of course, but Lerner is no Mike Ashley, and I can't ever see him making a hash of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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