blandy Posted June 24, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 24, 2012 I've been enjoying the irony of a News International title exposing tax avoidance by Jimmy Carr and Take That. Aye. News Corp. operates 136 subsidiary companies in nations identified as international tax havens by the U.S. Government. The thing is Cameron (and others) are always banging on about "fairness" All this "we all have to make sacrifices" - I didn't know they meant "we have to sacrifice the money we should have been paid by the likes of News Corp and Vodafone (and Jimmy Carr)" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Don't worry! You may soon have a hulking 24-year-old move in with you "just for a few weeks" as a result of the HB cuts, but that's ok, because Mr Cameron that he's all about the welfare of pensioners and disabled people. Not cutting pension provision and throwing disabled people on the scrapheap, no, not at all. And he's weally, weally stwict on tax dodging. Oh yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Kin Hell A new can of worms opens with the banks being found to manipulate the libor rate I hope this is investigated criminally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 28, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 28, 2012 Highly unlikely seeing as seemingly they've not broken a specific law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Erm I think you'll find they have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 28, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 28, 2012 Actually you will find that haven't broken any specific law because there is no specific law in relation to the manipulation of the interest rates. They have broken regulatory rules not the law. There might be a potential case for fraud however it is far from certain because to prove fraud you have to prove dishonest intent which isn't always an easy thing to prove. If they can prove that then charges will follow but personally I think they might struggle with charges under the fraud laws. The fact is though they haven't broken a specific law in relation to the interest rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 You might want to read the Theft Act, now known as The Fraud Act (2006 I think) These people can & will be brought to justice IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 28, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 28, 2012 You might want to read what I've posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 The issue will be the politicians who will not have an appetite to go after their lifeblood - the banks Lets hope the SFO see it differently Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Actually you will find that haven't broken any specific law because there is no specific law in relation to the manipulation of the interest rates. They have broken regulatory rules not the law. There might be a potential case for fraud however it is far from certain because to prove fraud you have to prove dishonest intent which isn't always an easy thing to prove. If they can prove that then charges will follow but personally I think they might struggle with charges under the fraud laws. The fact is though they haven't broken a specific law in relation to the interest rates.Of course there's not a specific law in relation only to interest rates, any more than there would be a law purely dealing with rigging the price of milk or the price of contracts. The specific law they appear to have broken is the Fraud Act 2006, section 4. Which is why the Fraud Squad are involved. The Fraud Squad's remit is criminal, not regulatory. Of course they broke regulatory rules as well, but that seems to have been dealt with by plea bargaining, grassing on other banks, and negotiating a settlement which sounds big but which amounts to just 10 days profit. The criminal investigation will be rather more of a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 The criminal investigation will be rather more of a concern. I doubt it (especially if it's down to the SFO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 The criminal investigation will be rather more of a concern. I doubt it (especially if it's down to the SFO). As I read it, the Fraud Squad rather than the SFO. (We should as a separate isse be asking many questions about why the govt have slashed the SFO, alongside HMRC tax inspectors). Barclays are shitting themselves. Read this crawling excuse from the Diamond Geezer himself for an indication of just how worried they are. But they are not alone in their plight. There's a whole load of chums who will stand alongside them in the dock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I don't see it (Diamond and others in the dock), I'm afraid. It's wishful thinking. I hope I'm proved wrong, though. We keep on kidding ourselves that something will be done about all of these sorts of things and, though the odd action or two may be taken against individuals (largely against those at the sacrificial lamb level), it just doesn't happen. Look at the other main banking story of the past fortnight: when a banking group has such an appalling failure with its IT systems as RBS/NatWest/Ulster Bank have in the last week or so and can get away with claiming it's just a 'glitch', push the same nonsense through most mainstream media that they try to do to customers over the 'phone (it'll be sorted by 4pm, &c.) and be given the first five minutes of the main BBC early evening news as a free PR slot then I think it shows there is no real appetite for dealing with these issues or even getting to the root of them. I doubt Mr Hester will lose his job, much of his remuneration or more than a wink or two of sleep but there will probably be a few more job losses in what is left of their IT department in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 ..But they are not alone in their plight. There's a whole load of chums who will stand alongside them in the dock. Torygraph reporting that RBS and Lloyds drawn into rate-rigging scandal The following may (or bloody well should) indicate real trouble ahead for our friends in the City - and possibly in Westminster: *A Barclays whistleblower accused the Government of failing to address the scandal which he first exposed more than four years ago. *A former trader at the Royal Bank of Scotland claimed that it was “common practice” among senior employees to make requests to fix the Libor rate - and that senior management knew about the tactic. Corrupt politicians, corrupt police, corrupt judiciary, corrupt media, corrupt banks... From the top down the institutions governing the UK seem to be morally and ethically bankrupt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 We keep on kidding ourselves that something will be done about all of these sorts of things and, though the odd action or two may be taken against individuals (largely against those at the sacrificial lamb level), it just doesn't happen. Agree totally with Snowy - Jamie Dimon of JPMC, Bob Diamond et al should be in jail never mind facing MPs or Senate committees who act more like wide eyed rabbits caught in the lights of oncoming traffic. Journalists and the public are acting all shocked about Barclays & other banks exposure of rigging interest rates but people like Max Keiser, Zerohedge have been telling everyone about this behaviour for years. It's the tip of the iceberg because as I've tried to say these mega financial institutions have become so powerful that they just do what they want. This is all just a distraction to make people think the regulators are doing something to curb banks behaviour, when actually they're not getting to the crux of the matter at all. What the FSA & the US regulators need to do is REGULATE them properly across the board, particularly their derivative trades and their ability to "rehypothocate" (inflate loans) - A quad trillion market that is completely without rules or safeguards, which is larger than and putting at grave risk the entire global financial system. Most of which goes through the City of London after Gordon Brown relaxed all the safeguards to make it the money laundering financial capital of the world. I for one am not fooled by any of this. It's just a slap on the wrist so we all think they're finally being tackled. Nothing will change - the banks will still keep being breastfed Billions in loans at 0% interest across the globe - under the guise of Quantative Easing - only to mis-use the dosh to trade on the derivatives market to earn them all obscene bonuses. It's not in the main being used to grow economies or help businesses survive the downturn. Absolutely obscene and history will record all this as the inactions of a global Nero fiddling while Rome burned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 TrentVilla wrote: Actually you will find that haven't broken any specific law because there is no specific law in relation to the manipulation of the interest rates. They have broken regulatory rules not the law. There might be a potential case for fraud however it is far from certain because to prove fraud you have to prove dishonest intent which isn't always an easy thing to prove. If they can prove that then charges will follow but personally I think they might struggle with charges under the fraud laws. The fact is though they haven't broken a specific law in relation to the interest rates The rules of the game though were relaxed deliberately at the beginning of the nineties both on Wall Street & in the City. Under the influence of powerful government advisers deliberately planted by Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan Chase, City Bank et al successive administrations in both the US & the UK have failed to put back safeguards, which had previously existed since the Wall St crash in the 1930s to protect savers from the actions of reckless bankers. Corrupt politicians, corrupt police, corrupt judiciary, corrupt media, corrupt banks... From the top down the institutions governing the UK seem to be morally and ethically bankrupt. And if things don't change then there's a good chance the UK as well as the wider global financial system will end up bankrupt too! You only have to look at Iceland to see what works! Stuff the bankers - look after your citizens & your economy. Oh lookie how well Iceland are doing after being practically in the same mire Greece was a few years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 The big banks & MP's will close ranks on this It's too big a scandal, so will be swept under the carpet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 The big banks & MP's will close ranks on this It's too big a scandal, so will be swept under the carpet Agreed because to quote Cameron "They're all in it together" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veloman Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I think a number of people on here are completely wrong about these fine bankers (who have definitely NOT contributed to the financial mess we seem to be in), we need their "Invisible Earnings" to support Britains flourishing manufacturing industry. What we really need to concentrate on are the teachers - they are the real cause of our economic woes ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted June 29, 2012 Moderator Share Posted June 29, 2012 Actually you will find that haven't broken any specific law because there is no specific law in relation to the manipulation of the interest rates. They have broken regulatory rules not the law. There might be a potential case for fraud however it is far from certain because to prove fraud you have to prove dishonest intent which isn't always an easy thing to prove. If they can prove that then charges will follow but personally I think they might struggle with charges under the fraud laws. The fact is though they haven't broken a specific law in relation to the interest rates.Of course there's not a specific law in relation only to interest rates, any more than there would be a law purely dealing with rigging the price of milk or the price of contracts. The specific law they appear to have broken is the Fraud Act 2006, section 4. Which is why the Fraud Squad are involved. The Fraud Squad's remit is criminal, not regulatory. Of course they broke regulatory rules as well, but that seems to have been dealt with by plea bargaining, grassing on other banks, and negotiating a settlement which sounds big but which amounts to just 10 days profit. The criminal investigation will be rather more of a concern. Yes I know all that, that is why I specifically mentioned the possibility of fraud charges in the post you've quoted. Charges under fraud law though won't be easy and are far from certain to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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