JulieB Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Charges under fraud law though won't be easy and are far from certain to follow. The CPS & the FSA also have to contend with the fact that bankers can afford better lawyers than they can. Well remember the interview at the beginning of Inside Job where the investigator recalled how pre 2008 collapse, everytime an Icelandic regulator dared to step into one of their banks to question their practices, he would be faced with about 19 lawyers accompanying any banking staff during an interview. If the regulator did well he was offered a job by the bank to shut him up! This scenario has been repeated time & time again across the globe. How many leave Canary Wharf to take up lucrative positions on City boards? Causing an unacceptable conflict of interest within the FSA, which should be addressed. Mervyn King has called for a new culture in UK banks this morning - but HE's part of the problem - because he's constantly lobbied for banks to be given endless amounts of cheap money. WHY? Our economy needs help...not the flaming investment banks! Long gone are the days when many of the large investment banks provided private equity to drive industry & entrepeneurship forward. ALL most of them exist for is to gamble and find clever ways to abuse the system to earn more money. Until the legislature puts in place proper, enforcable regulations and adequate safeguards, - these clever men will simply laugh at the system and continue to use and abuse it for their own private ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Until the legislature puts in place proper, enforcable regulations and adequate safeguards, - these clever men will simply laugh at the system and continue to use and abuse it for their own private ends. Even with 'proper, enforceable regulation' clever (perhaps cunning is more appropriate a word) men (and women) of certain types will continue to laugh at whatever system is in place and continue to abuse it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Even with 'proper, enforceable regulation' clever (perhaps cunning is more appropriate a word) men (and women) of certain types will continue to laugh at whatever system is in place and continue to abuse it. Possibly Snowy - but what would urge me on is the concerted efforts the investment banks have made to stop regulation being re-introduced so far plus the way they've tried to continually stop or put off splitting the banks into retail & investment arms Investment banks have been re-hypothecating loans/loan swaps to bump up their balance sheets to falsely justify bonus calculations and they need access to all our of our deposits and loans in order to transact as much corporate casino banking as they have been. Why would any business need to take out a loan swap when the banks new that they would be manipulating central banks to keep interest rates low so that they can continue fleecing as much margins out of SMEs and individuals as they can! Doesn't apply to everyone in the City or in banking but I'm afraid most of em are the same. Scum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Even with 'proper, enforceable regulation' clever (perhaps cunning is more appropriate a word) men (and women) of certain types will continue to laugh at whatever system is in place and continue to abuse it. Possibly Snowy - but what would urge me on is the concerted efforts the investment banks have made to stop regulation being re-introduced so far plus the way they've tried to continually stop or put off splitting the banks into retail & investment arms You may have misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't suggesting that regulation (well devised and properly enforced) would necessarily not help matters but that even with it some people will be looking to abuse whatever system is in place. It may make the abuse more difficult but that may just make the premiums larger for those that succeed. I think we have to try and be cleverer about things than just relying upon legislation and hopefully discovering the transgressors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 You may have misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't suggesting that regulation (well devised and properly enforced) would necessarily not help matters but that even with it some people will be looking to abuse whatever system is in place. It may make the abuse more difficult but that may just make the premiums larger for those that succeed. I think we have to try and be cleverer about things than just relying upon legislation and hopefully discovering the transgressors. I agree Snowy. Lord Turner Chairman of the FSA admitted publically that "they aren't clever enough to regulate the banks" when the RBS report was finally released by the regulator. Perhaps there needs to be severe punishments doled out to some to set an example to deter any transgressors. Perhaps making them personally liable. It won't happen though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I don't see it (Diamond and others in the dock), I'm afraid. It's wishful thinking. I hope I'm proved wrong, though. You're probably right. He's only brought the culture of casino banking from Bar Cap into the high street side of the business, presided over widespread criminality in his business, looked on indulgently as his minions spread a culture of fear and conformity through the business, absorbed the billions of implicit government subsidy (the BoE calculated value of the govt standing behind banks) into his balance sheet and made out it was all down to his genius, failed to lend to small business on remotely acceptable terms, sucked up every bit of bonus, preferment, "hospitality" and other little favours available, swindled the country out of billions in tax unpaid (while being unable even to say how many tax havens his company has subsidiaries in), and generally **** us over good and proper while telling us "the time for apologies is over". It's not as though he's reached through a broken shop window and stolen a bottle of water, a crime for which immediate imprisonment is the only appropriate course of action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 I don't see it (Diamond and others in the dock), I'm afraid. It's wishful thinking. I hope I'm proved wrong, though. You're probably right. He's only brought the culture of casino banking from Bar Cap into the high street side of the business, presided over widespread criminality in his business, looked on indulgently as his minions spread a culture of fear and conformity through the business, absorbed the billions of implicit government subsidy (the BoE calculated value of the govt standing behind banks) into his balance sheet and made out it was all down to his genius, failed to lend to small business on remotely acceptable terms, sucked up every bit of bonus, preferment, "hospitality" and other little favours available, swindled the country out of billions in tax unpaid (while being unable even to say how many tax havens his company has subsidiaries in), and generally **** us over good and proper while telling us "the time for apologies is over". It's not as though he's reached through a broken shop window and stolen a bottle of water, a crime for which immediate imprisonment is the only appropriate course of action. Indeed. Again, I hope I turn out to be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Another day, another banking scandal rocket polishers to a man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 But to be positive, it does seem that there is a mood growing that the cheats and chancers, the liars and double-dealers, the champagne-swilling taxdodging cretins who have brought about this mess, cannot be allowed to carry on, that they should be held accountable for their greed and selfishness and destruction. That needs to follow through into positive action, like criminal prosecutions, far tighter regulation, cracking down on tax havens; and some more positive measures like supporting ethical banking, credit unions and peer-to-peer lending, direct public investment in socially worthwhile activities instead of gambling, and the like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Thoughts from the right wing on the banking bollocks. Possibly she sees herself as something else, but she seems largely straight-on tory to me, though with some deviant tendencies. But as an ex-banker, some of her insights on the criminal predispositions of traders are interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Criminal Prosecutions is wishful thinking All they'll do is forefit an interim bonus, let the storm pass then carry on fleecing the country & jobs for the boys for the MPs (non execs / "consultancy" work etc etc) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Missed Jon Snow's grilling of the Libor spokesman on C4 News - wished I'd seen it. Interesting tweet this morning. Jon Snow @jonsnowC4 Surely no conflicts of interest: Marcus Aegius: Chair Barclays; Chair BBA Libor; BBC Executive committee....anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulieB Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Good interview with Economist Professor Steve Keen on 2nd half of Keiser Report explaining the madness of breastfeeding the Banks cheap money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 An SME discusses how they have been treated by their bank. At the other end of the scale, the BIS admits that banks are lying about their asset values, but suggests we should throw more money at them to cover it up. There's a petition for a proper judicial inquiry, which Cameron will no doubt try his best to avoid having. This blogger discusses the case for such an inquiry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 Criminal Prosecutions is wishful thinking All they'll do is forefit an interim bonus, let the storm pass then carry on fleecing the country & jobs for the boys for the MPs (non execs / "consultancy" work etc etc) That will certainly be their wish. However, it won't be quite that easy. With the police taking a bit of criticism over their widespread corruption highlighted by Leveson, they may be in difficulty if they don't take action. For example, "There have to be police inquiries into this. Anybody, the youngest detective, would say this is conspiracy to defraud. It can mean nothing else. And therefore someone has to launch a criminal inquiry into this behaviour." And I see there's talk of having people extradited to the US to face charges in relation to LIBOR fraud, which affected many people over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDish Posted July 1, 2012 Share Posted July 1, 2012 We need another Lehman moment. Set an example where one of the too big to fail institutions are taken down, at the same time as we give the message that the governments will not rescue any of the big financial institutions. And when the turmoil starts, we have the proper timing for breaking up all those institutions that are too big to fail. Banks should lend money, not build their books with bonds from Greece, Italy, Spain etc, stocks and future contracts. Bloomberg had recently an article that put focus on how much JP Morgan saves in interest payment (due to better credit rating) because it is perceived that the US will fund it when it goes down the drain. It is 17 billion dollars. With the "right" rating and interest rate, JP Morgan would have to cut back on its derivative portfolio, bond holdings and focus on lending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 So which MP's are going to get dragged into the Libor enquiry just to lie through their teeth ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 So which MP's are going to get dragged into the Libor enquiry just to lie through their teeth ? Whoever does will? I thought the 'questioning' of Diamond was utterly shoddy (with one or two exceptions - third/fourth questioner, Garnier(?) and then the chap on the other side of Mann) and it allowed him to, mostly, repeat some cobblers attempting to be contrite. I see that a couple of them made it on to Newsnight to indicate how rubbish his evidence was - shame they couldn't have nailed him on it rather than pontificating on the Beeb. Here's a question - those traders and desk people who Diamond claimed had lost their positions, when did that happen? Before the investigation, during it or in the last week when Diamond discovered that all of this happened? Seems a mirror of the NI/wider industry stuff of other select committees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.J.Rimmer Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I spent my working life in international trade, and take it from me, market manipulation should be the aspiration of every good trader. Had I worked at Barclays, I would have got rid of anybody who failed to take advantage of the libor fix to make extra profit. The problem here is not that we don’t have enough regulation, rather that we have too much. What we need is fewer, but more strictly enforced rules. To think that some never-done-anything-so-don’t-know-anything fool like Milliband can legislate our way out of this, is about the most stupid idea I’ve ever heard. We would do better imprisoning shop keepers for selling baked beans more expensively than the shop down the road. I’m not sure, but I think it was Walter Bagehot who said the City of London, rather like the human nervous system, is far too complex an organism to be messed about, with any expectation of knowing what would be the result… and that was 150 years ago. The fly in the ointment is quite clear to anyone, and we are a tiny minority, who has done this sort of thing for a living. The interbank lending rate should fluctuate freely, as supply and demand, otherwise called the ‘market’, dictates. Put simply, the problem began with the attempt to ‘fix’ the libor rate. A wholly moronic idea for one very very simple reason… nobody, but nobody, bucks the market. Before I’m shot down for being a banker’s lackey, I wrote to Nigel Lawson many years ago to warn him of the stupidity of trying to ‘shadow the Deutsche Mark’… I tried to explain to him that ‘nobody, but nobody, bucks the market’…. yet, surprise surprise, he and Norman Lamont knew better. I also told Mr Fred Goodwin, the first time he was a plain ‘Mr’, that he did not understand the basic principles of banking… but he too knew better. Living in a country that preferred striking to making cars, sadly, we are now left with the City as our largest source of earnings… frankly I couldn’t give a shit if people choose to destroy it… as long as they don’t come to me when they’re hungry. For the many amongst you who also know better… I’m off for a very long lunch, so that’s it for today! PS In reference to an earlier discussion, I see that genius Hollande has put up the tax rate to 75%, and now he’s looking for spending cuts… sounds like austerity to me. I’m curious, do you think he’s really stupid enough to have believed his own election promises, or is it just the voters who are stupid… I’d really like to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeepDish Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 The problem is that the regulators are colluding with the banks so that the true state of the big banks are hidden. Example: Mark to market accounting regarding value of sovereign bonds. It shoud be labeled Mark to fantasy, as they does not use the real market value in the accounts. Another example are the trillions of deivatives, which is also Mark to fantasy. Stop the colluding, that is what must happened. And I am not surprised that BOE is dragged into thie LI(E)BORgate, the FED is probably in on it too. And govenrments must never rescue banks. Never! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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