StefanAVFC Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: The mental gymnastics needed to dismiss multiple women making similar allegations is why these women don't feel like they can come forward. Genuinely scares me having two young daughters when I see the attitude of some. They’re dismissed because they don’t file charges. But if they file charges they’re no longer anonymous and then they’re doing it for attention. how can these women win? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, DCJonah said: The mental gymnastics needed to dismiss multiple women making similar allegations is why these women don't feel like they can come forward. Genuinely scares me having two young daughters when I see the attitude of some. Its also mentally scary how people just want people to go prison without trial and havent looked at any evidence God your so dramatic its ridiculous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysAVFC Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 29 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: They should come forward and press charges as now its come out if they want him to be justice The sad truth is sexual assault and rape charges are so hard to actually get a conviction back when the incidents happened and still today. There is bound to be a fear that they would go through it all and he's found not guilty, which is heartbreaking if you know you are telling the truth. It only seems like the 'wins' come in non criminal cases and pay offs to avoid them and that's in The US rather than here. It is such a minefield though, in the fact sometimes there are false claims. Similarly last week I think, on the same day there was a report about abusive father's being allowed to see their children and causing harm again and another about a number of women making false claims to get custody and to ban contact entirely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: Its also mentally scary how people just want people to go prison without trial and havent looked at any evidence God your so dramatic its ridiculous Who wants anyone to go to prison with trial? If there are no charges there can’t be a trial. And there is evidence. A decade long investigation’s worth. Just because you haven’t read it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Lee’s point isn’t valid at all when you consider 4 out of 5 of the women have remained anonymous I just want to clarify, that it isn't my point at all, I'm fairly certain that the women are telling the truth and that lots more will come out over the next few days/weeks. As I said, I was playing devils advocate and just repeating some of the things I've seen on Twatter and Reddit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Lee’s point isn’t valid at all when you consider 4 out of 5 of the women have remained anonymous What has that got to do with lees post? He is talking about how difficult it is to prove? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: What has that got to do with lees post? He is talking about how difficult it is to prove? He's saying that it isn't valid because people are saying that these women are fame hungry, attention grabbing, after their 5 minutes of fame etc, but that argument is blown out of the water when they have chosen to remain anonymous. I don't think he is arguing about the difficulty to prove it, just the arguments that people are raising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 4 minutes ago, AlwaysAVFC said: The sad truth is sexual assault and rape charges are so hard to actually get a conviction back when the incidents happened and still today. There is bound to be a fear that they would go through it all and he's found not guilty, which is heartbreaking if you know you are telling the truth. It only seems like the 'wins' come in non criminal cases and pay offs to avoid them and that's in The US rather than here. It is such a minefield though, in the fact sometimes there are false claims. Similarly last week I think, on the same day there was a report about abusive father's being allowed to see their children and causing harm again and another about a number of women making false claims to get custody and to ban contact entirely. A well written piece I cant believe they still allow pay offs to settle out of court. I hate that law with passion esp when it comes to rape victims Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 1 minute ago, leemond2008 said: He's saying that it isn't valid because people are saying that these women are fame hungry, attention grabbing, after their 5 minutes of fame etc, but that argument is blown out of the water when they have chosen to remain anonymous. I don't think he is arguing about the difficulty to prove it, just the arguments that people are raising. That would mean though that part of your post isnt valid not the whole post as it seemed to have alluded This is a very difficult subject but i dont think no one is saying the women are wrong for coming forward as that takes real courage. I just hope if a crime has been commited he goes down for a very long time like any rapist should Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 12 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Its also mentally scary how people just want people to go prison without trial and havent looked at any evidence God your so dramatic its ridiculous Haha who said go to prison without a trial? I've also looked at the evidence presented so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: That would mean though that part of your post isnt valid not the whole post as it seemed to have alluded This is a very difficult subject but i dont think no one is saying the women are wrong for coming forward as that takes real courage. I just hope if a crime has been commited he goes down for a very long time like any rapist should If not charges are pressed (for many valid, but sad reasons) then he won’t ‘go down’ you are incredibly naive if you think the world works like this. Did Mason Greenwood do nothing wrong then? (can someone else ask him this? I’m a bit tired of being ignored) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 14 minutes ago, AlwaysAVFC said: The sad truth is sexual assault and rape charges are so hard to actually get a conviction back when the incidents happened and still today. There is bound to be a fear that they would go through it all and he's found not guilty, which is heartbreaking if you know you are telling the truth. It only seems like the 'wins' come in non criminal cases and pay offs to avoid them and that's in The US rather than here. It is such a minefield though, in the fact sometimes there are false claims. Similarly last week I think, on the same day there was a report about abusive father's being allowed to see their children and causing harm again and another about a number of women making false claims to get custody and to ban contact entirely. I don't think you can compare this to a he said/she said incident. Yes there will always be cases where false claims are made. This is multiple women, who do not know each other, over a long period of time, coming out and making similar allegations about one person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: i dont think no one is saying the women are wrong for coming forward as that takes real courage. ‘It takes real courage but there’s also no evidence as there’s no trial’ make it make sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post tonyh29 Posted September 17, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2023 The TV show might smoke out some more victims and maybe one or more of the victims will talk to the police , so I don’t think this will just go away simply with Brand disappearing from the public eye . even though there is no reason to doubt the women’s claims yesterday , there are supposed to counter witnesses so I do think it’s important to hear what they have to say , I think there also needs to be a few other people who face some scrutiny… a shagger of the year award should never have been a thing , celebrating Brands promiscuity should never have been a thing , execs turning a blind eye should never have been a thing … it can’t be swept away as it was a different time back then Oh and shame on the people that heard a woman screaming in a house and stood outside and did nothing to protect their career 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 Just now, DCJonah said: I don't think you can compare this to a he said/she said incident. Yes there will always be cases where false claims are made. This is multiple women, who do not know each other, over a long period of time, coming out and making similar allegations about one person. Incredibly specific allegations with receipts too. But no evidence, nah. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: The TV show might smoke out some more victims and maybe one or more of the victims will talk to the police , so I don’t think this will just go away simply with Brand disappearing from the public eye . even though there is no reason to doubt the women’s claims yesterday , there are supposed to counter witnesses so I do think it’s important to hear what they have to say , I think there also needs to be a few other people who face some scrutiny… a shagger of the year award should never have been a thing , celebrating Brands promiscuity should never have been a thing , execs turning a blind eye should never have been a thing … it can’t be swept away as it was a different time back then Oh and shame on the people that heard a woman screaming in a house and stood outside and did nothing to protect their career Zero chance of that. He got ahead of this and now has a rabid, loyal fan base who detest women. I’ve also seen, and it made me equally sad and amused, many TERFs coming out in support of him. I thought they were anti-Trans to protect women? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dr_Alimantado Posted September 17, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted September 17, 2023 Some concerning perspectives being offered in this thread. The frankly shocking statistics around conviction rates for rape and sexual assault should tell you all you need to know about why this isn’t, at the time of writing, a criminal matter. For victims of rape, the ordeal of going through legal proceedings could have a life-changing psychological effect, on top of the effect of the assault itself, hence why so many choose not to subject themselves to a process where there is less than 1% chance of justice being served. Imagine the impact of going though all that to see your rapist exonerated. It really isn’t as simple as saying “well why don’t they go to the police then?”, that’s a profoundly naïve stance. Whilst I’m sure we all agree that balance is important, listening to the victims should always be given precedence. I’m sure more information will come to light, but the testimonies published so far make for grim reading. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 9 minutes ago, Dr_Alimantado said: Some concerning perspectives being offered in this thread. The frankly shocking statistics around conviction rates for rape and sexual assault should tell you all you need to know about why this isn’t, at the time of writing, a criminal matter. For victims of rape, the ordeal of going through legal proceedings could have a life-changing psychological effect, on top of the effect of the assault itself, hence why so many choose not to subject themselves to a process where there is less than 1% chance of justice being served. Imagine the impact of going though all that to see your rapist exonerated. It really isn’t as simple as saying “well why don’t they go to the police then?”, that’s a profoundly naïve stance. Whilst I’m sure we all agree that balance is important, listening to the victims should always be given precedence. I’m sure more information will come to light, but the testimonies published so far make for grim reading. And that’s in cases where the defendant doesn’t have millions of quid and a huge loyal, rabid fan base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted September 17, 2023 Moderator Share Posted September 17, 2023 But we're only certain Brand's victims are telling the truth if he eventually gets banged up, right? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted September 17, 2023 Share Posted September 17, 2023 A famous English legal saying is “Better for eight guilty men to walk free, than one innocent man be jailed.” Brand is one of the eight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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