Ukraine v England/Scotland v England

[bobzy]

33 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Because there's no point. He's 29 and plays in a position England are stacked in. 

Not entirely sure I follow the logic here.

[Cizzler]

2 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Probably just me having a brain fart, but which Jones?

 

Presume he means Curtis? Although think he’s only played 25 mins of football all season.

It’s the same, tired squad with a lot of turgid names - but not sure there’s truly anyone banging the door down.

Bowen / A. Gordon maybe unlucky. For all the clamour around Henderson and Maguire, there’s no one screaming out to replace them. Sure, I’d pick Konsa over Maguire but can understand why Southgate is trusting his man.

The first XI is full of very good players. The depth is pretty woeful and the style of football will be too.

[villa4europe]

5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Probably just me having a brain fart, but which Jones?

 

Curtis

I'm not convinced by him and he'd definitley have the top 6 call up about him, same as elliot

But at least you can put him in there and see it rather than naming the same old faces who we know aren't good enough

As it is the u21 cycle finished this summer and Colwill is the only player who has stepped up for a meaningless friendly

Skipp, gomes, garner, Jones, elliot, JJ, gibbs white, ESR, Gordon all now left with no home internationally

Just look at some of them, Southgate will learn absolutely **** all about phillips playing vs Scotland, you could argue Henderson the same but in reality he needs to watch Henderson to see just how bad his drop off is which is a sad state of affairs in itself

[bobzy]

5 minutes ago, Cizzler said:

Presume he means Curtis? Although think he’s only played 25 mins of football all season.

It’s the same, tired squad with a lot of turgid names - but not sure there’s truly anyone banging the door down.

Bowen / A. Gordon maybe unlucky. For all the clamour around Henderson and Maguire, there’s no one screaming out to replace them. Sure, I’d pick Konsa over Maguire but can understand why Southgate is trusting his man.

The first XI is full of very good players. The depth is pretty woeful and the style of football will be too.

It's a fair point, but someone just playing football would be a good start.  You should get into the England team on merit rather than name/club.  I don't watch enough football outside of Villa games to know if there's anyone obvious out there, mind.

[villa4europe]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

It's a fair point, but someone just playing football would be a good start.  You should get into the England team on merit rather than name/club.  I don't watch enough football outside of Villa games to know if there's anyone obvious out there, mind.

Trying my hardest to take the c&b glasses off JJ is the only obvious one for midfield IMO

I'm surprised the 2 Liverpool lads didn't get a look in and personally I want him to throw caps away in friendlies and games vs the likes of Malta but no one is properly banging the door down

The media will loan about maguire, Henderson and phillips but they won't be shouting out alternatives

[Dodgyknees]

1 minute ago, villa4europe said:

Trying my hardest to take the c&b glasses off JJ is the only obvious one for midfield IMO

I'm surprised the 2 Liverpool lads didn't get a look in and personally I want him to throw caps away in friendlies and games vs the likes of Malta but no one is properly banging the door down

The media will loan about maguire, Henderson and phillips but they won't be shouting out alternatives

“I need to see if Ramsey can do it at a high level, so I haven’t picked him and will keep an eye on him” incoming comment this season.

[MrBlack]

3 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Curtis

I'm not convinced by him and he'd definitley have the top 6 call up about him, same as elliot

But at least you can put him in there and see it rather than naming the same old faces who we know aren't good enough

As it is the u21 cycle finished this summer and Colwill is the only player who has stepped up for a meaningless friendly

Skipp, gomes, garner, Jones, elliot, JJ, gibbs white, ESR, Gordon all now left with no home internationally

Just look at some of them, Southgate will learn absolutely **** all about phillips playing vs Scotland, you could argue Henderson the same but in reality he needs to watch Henderson to see just how bad his drop off is which is a sad state of affairs in itself

You use friendlies to either embed your style of play, or look at new options. His style is well and truly embedded (unfortunately) so no need for that. So what's the reason for overlooking all those under 21 players?

He's looking at it from the wrong perspective. "These players didn't do anything to warrant getting dropped"... but if they're not playing then how can you pick them and expect them to be match fit? Then how can you say a kid that won their age groups continental championships hasn't done enough to earn a call up. 

Curtis Jones scoring the winner in the final, the kind of presence you want to start nurturing and getting involved in the squad at the earliest opportunity if you hope they'll push on. Even Anthony effing Gordon would have been a better pick than Henderson.

He's an idiot and we'll continue to plod along and lose to any genuinely decent side, with maybe a semi final to show for it. 

[HanoiVillan]

15 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Not entirely sure I follow the logic here.

The logic is you either need to win the match now (in which case we have at least half a dozen wide forwards who are significantly better - Saka, Foden, Grealish, Rashford, Sterling, Bowen) or you want to use the opportunity to blood players who will be important for the future, in which case you want to give time to the next generation (Gordon, Palmer, Ramsey, even Barnes is four years - ie, an entire World Cup cycle - younger than March). 

It seems to me that a game against a duff Ukraine side who aren't even at home and a friendly against Scotland would be more the latter than the former, but it doesn't really matter because March doesn't make sense for either occasion. 

There can't be many countries (France? Argentina, purely because of Messi?) who have better wide forward options than England. Solly March is a good player, I'm not insulting him, but he's not needed for England. 

[bobzy]

3 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

The logic is you either need to win the match now (in which case we have at least half a dozen wide forwards who are significantly better - Saka, Foden, Grealish, Rashford, Sterling, Bowen) or you want to use the opportunity to blood players who will be important for the future, in which case you want to give time to the next generation (Gordon, Palmer, Ramsey, even Barnes is four years - ie, an entire World Cup cycle - younger than March). 

It seems to me that a game against a duff Ukraine side who aren't even at home and a friendly against Scotland would be more the latter than the former, but it doesn't really matter because March doesn't make sense for either occasion. 

There can't be many countries (France? Argentina, purely because of Messi?) who have better wide forward options than England. Solly March is a good player, I'm not insulting him, but he's not needed for England. 

It's passed me by that Solly March was a wide forward; I thought he was either a wing back or some sort of attacking mid   As you were...

[HanoiVillan]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

It's passed me by that Solly March was a wide forward; I thought he was either a wing back or some sort of attacking mid   As you were...

To be fair I think he's quite versatile and has played at wing back before so it's perfectly possible you've seen him do that. 

[OutByEaster?]

I think England are really well stocked in the attacking midfield areas - our third choice set of three would be decent enough - but the two in the pivot are much more difficult.

I think Rice and Bellingham will start there for years - it's a little unfair on Bellingham as it restricts him, but the alternative is dropping Foden for Ward-Prowse to free Bellingham up, and for me that's too big a loss.

Behind Rice and Bellingham though there's not really much of anything - there's a reason why we've seen three players go for over £100m in those positions this summer - there aren't many good ones about. Ward-Prowse and Phillips is a big drop off from Rice and Bellingham.

And, although we can't help old drippypants with his squad selection, I do love that we've got two exceptional pivot midfielders at Villa Park.

 

[Cizzler]

3 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Skipp, gomes, garner, Jones, elliot, JJ, gibbs white, ESR, Gordon all now left with no home internationally

None of these are currently good enough though. 

Only Gibbs-White, Gordon and Garner actually start for their club teams (and Garner + MGW are playing for two of the worst teams in the league). 

I don’t see the problem with not calling these players up. It’s not like any really play the same position as Maguire, Henderson or Phillips - which are driving most of the frustration. Maybe Jones could play in the midfield 3? But pretty sure he’s injured and am not sure how good he is anyway.

There’s still a competitive game to win and this is the squad for that.

I personally wouldn’t have chosen any of Maguire, Phillips or Henderson - but the other options haven’t done enough to justify the outcry in my opinion.

[VillaChris]

Probably the biggest surprise to me is no Nick Pope.

So let's get this right...Southgate been calling him up consistently in last two years and now he's probably going to be England's sole regular in CL (think Arsenal will be starting Raya ahead of Ramsdale in that competition) he's suddenly not better than Sam Johnstone who's been warming the bench endlessly for the last year.

Southgate moans endlessly about the lack of CL experience in some areas of the squad and then drops one when he's just about to play in the competition.

Pickford's also had a very poor start to the season.

 

Edited August 31, 2023 by VillaChris

[VillaChris]

3 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

To be fair I think he's quite versatile and has played at wing back before so it's perfectly possible you've seen him do that. 

I think the feeling is outside Brighton't system he'd just go back to being ordinary as England certainly wouldn't play him in similar manner to what Brighton ask for him.

Interesting that Pascal Gross has got his first ever call up for Germany at age of 32. Fair play to him as he's always been a good player for them but imagine that news has gone done pretty negatively in Germany as dosen't exactly encourage optimism ahead of a home tournament with all their issues in other areas of the pitch.

[VillaJ100]

3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think England are really well stocked in the attacking midfield areas - our third choice set of three would be decent enough - but the two in the pivot are much more difficult.

I think Rice and Bellingham will start there for years - it's a little unfair on Bellingham as it restricts him, but the alternative is dropping Foden for Ward-Prowse to free Bellingham up, and for me that's too big a loss.

Behind Rice and Bellingham though there's not really much of anything - there's a reason why we've seen three players go for over £100m in those positions this summer - there aren't many good ones about. Ward-Prowse and Phillips is a big drop off from Rice and Bellingham.

And, although we can't help old drippypants with his squad selection, I do love that we've got two exceptional pivot midfielders at Villa Park.

 

Anyone can see Bellingham will be the best midfielder in the world in a couple of years, you need to fit people in around him not take away his best abilities to fit in Foden

[villa4europe]

5 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said:

Anyone can see Bellingham will be the best midfielder in the world in a couple of years, you need to fit people in around him not take away his best abilities to fit in Foden

He only got a run in the England team cos phillips was injured

[Cizzler]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

He only got a run in the England team cos phillips was injured

He literally just turned 20 in June and already has 24 caps?

I’m all for bashing Southgate about being tactically limited and poor selection decisions at times - but find it pretty hard to criticise how he’s phased Bellingham into the England team. 

[villa4europe]

7 minutes ago, Cizzler said:

He literally just turned 20 in June and already has 24 caps?

I’m all for bashing Southgate about being tactically limited and poor selection decisions at times - but find it pretty hard to criticise how he’s phased Bellingham into the England team. 

Nah I disagree, he didn't start games for England until after over a year of being a key player for Dortmund and then didn't really become a regular starter until the march 2022 games, at which point he was dortmunds 2nd best player behind Haaland and bossing games including in the CL

What did that coincide with? Phillips being unavailable

Not saying it wouldn't have happened eventually because Bellingham is too good for him to ignore but Southgate stumbled his way in to playing him, he was playing at a really high level for Dortmund and not starting for England because phillips was instead

24 caps at 20...he should have more... And definitley more starts, England should have been building around him for 2 years now already

[Mic09]

5 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

I think England are really well stocked in the attacking midfield areas - our third choice set of three would be decent enough - but the two in the pivot are much more difficult.

I think Rice and Bellingham will start there for years - it's a little unfair on Bellingham as it restricts him, but the alternative is dropping Foden for Ward-Prowse to free Bellingham up, and for me that's too big a loss.

Behind Rice and Bellingham though there's not really much of anything - there's a reason why we've seen three players go for over £100m in those positions this summer - there aren't many good ones about. Ward-Prowse and Phillips is a big drop off from Rice and Bellingham.

And, although we can't help old drippypants with his squad selection, I do love that we've got two exceptional pivot midfielders at Villa Park.

 

England have 2 starting midfielders in the 100m pricetag in Bellingham and Rice. 

Sure Ward Prowse and Phillips are a drop off. But they are established PL players, full of talent and quality. In fact, I can't think of another nation with similarly strong midfield. I won't be having this "lack of depth" bullshit from Southgate. 

This is international football. Southgate can't get a transfer of another player.

What he has to do is build a tactic based on squad he has available and best players possible. But he is not a good manager so he doesn't do that.

Instead of a solution to a barely existent problem of "omg, we'll have to play £30m ward Prowse, a set piece genius against Scotland, how will we cope?!"  he decides to call up Henderson.

A solution might be to not play 2 defensive midfielders, and be a bit more attacking or give his forwards more defensive responsibilities. 

But his solution is to panic and pick a player who hasn't really played since Bielsa and the well known LGBT rights activist currently employed by Saudi Arabia.

[villa4europe]

5 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

England have 2 starting midfielders in the 100m pricetag in Bellingham and Rice. 

Sure Ward Prowse and Phillips are a drop off. But they are established PL players, full of talent and quality. In fact, I can't think of another nation with similarly strong midfield. I won't be having this "lack of depth" bullshit from Southgate. 

This is international football. Southgate can't get a transfer of another player.

What he has to do is build a tactic based on squad he has available and best players possible. But he is not a good manager so he doesn't do that.

Instead of a solution to a barely existent problem of "omg, we'll have to play £30m ward Prowse, a set piece genius against Scotland, how will we cope?!"  he decides to call up Henderson.

A solution might be to not play 2 defensive midfielders, and be a bit more attacking or give his forwards more defensive responsibilities. 

But his solution is to panic and pick a player who hasn't really played since Bielsa and the well known LGBT rights activist currently employed by Saudi Arabia.

I disagree, the midfield is poor, showed at the WC, we obviously have the stifling tactics and management as a factor but the midfield vs France was nowhere near good enough

And France have loads more depth than us pretty much all over the pitch bar maybe attacking midfielders