Nicolò Zaniolo

[est1874]

10 hours ago, Mister_a said:

I've changed my mind on him entirely. I was hopeful that this would be an awesome loan, but I was wrong.

He's crap, he does nothing, the ball either bounces off him, or he tries something he might have been able to do 5 years ago, and fails, giving the ball back to the opposition.

Just send him back, he's a dud. 

I don't think he's crap but I've changed my mind on him too:

I thought he would come good with us, but for some reason, a lot of players come here off the back of good runs elsewhere and end up looking awful, and never quite come good.

Nicolo is one. I just can't see him making it in the PL, certainly not with us. Send him back.

[Guest]

It's depressing that he'll never live up to the potential he showed at Roma, those injuries have ruined a special player. 

[foreveryoung]

I just think he's one of those loan players that can't be arsed. Always looks that way, flashes of brillience, but looking like he would rather be back at his own club.

[avfc1982am]

1 minute ago, foreveryoung said:

I just think he's one of those loan players that can't be arsed. Always looks that way, flashes of brillience, but looking like he would rather be back at his own club.

I don't think that was the case, but it probably might be now he realises he's not valued enough. 100% he'll go and tear it up somewhere else when this season is out the way. He's definitely not a bad player.

[duke313]

26 minutes ago, est1874 said:

I don't think he's crap but I've changed my mind on him too:

I thought he would come good with us, but for some reason, a lot of players come here off the back of good runs elsewhere and end up looking awful, and never quite come good.

Nicolo is one. I just can't see him making it in the PL, certainly not with us. Send him back.

He’s been played out of position since he got here, and is now only get me from the bench. Can’t really judge him on that.

[Kiwivillan]

Can he play CB?

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, Dodgyknees said:

Are you investigating Julie B’s basement?

Let's hope someone gives it a laugh. I would hate to think you have gone through all that deep thought for nothing.

[est1874]

1 hour ago, duke313 said:

He’s been played out of position since he got here, and is now only get me from the bench. Can’t really judge him on that.

What exactly is his position then? Because we've seen him utilised on the right, left and in the centre.

[Kiwivillan]

1 hour ago, est1874 said:

What exactly is his position then? Because we've seen him utilised on the right, left and in the centre.

Left right out 

[TRO]

15 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

You've seriously got to stop looking at silly comparisons. The current side is full of continental players many of whom don't have a blood and guts attitude, but that doesn't make them crap. And as much as I like McGinn he's been seriously found wanting in games himself and can be very one dimensional. I'm sure if we had a team made up of McGinns, McTominays or Gray's we'd still be lacking elsewhere.

Lets be honest, McGinn is far from the main player in the side. He may well be captain but imo he's behind Martinez, Dougie, Watkins Konsa and Torres for quality. McGinn is a limited player, a good player on his day, but still limited. The idea he does everything on his own is nonsense.  

You've seriously got to improve, your interpretation of whats actually being said, opposed to what you think is being said.....If you are not sure, what I mean, ask me....you know what, " Assume" stands for.

I have certainly not suggested, a team full of McGinns.....but I don't think his blood and thunder approach, would hurt anyone, are you seriously suggesting, a pugnacious or truculent player is a bad thing, to add to our already expansive football.

I suggest you watch one or two of the top 3 to see their aggressive manner on occasions.....They are not all Mo Salahs or Bernado Silvas.....Take a look, you might find a Rodri or Rice......and errrrrr No. I am not saying McGinn is as good as them

I have just mentioned McGinns whole hearted approach, and you have gone off on a tangent, as if I have condemned, every footballer born.....you then seem to want to go in to McGinns, every attribute for examination.?????????

I do think John McGinn is blessed with a Celtic spirit, and I do think its a valuable part of our team....yes, even a modern team.....to suggest that I am dismissing the silky skills of the game, by mentioning it, is Folly.

For Example......If an elegantly dressed Woman, is out in the open and it starts raining,  offering some additional cover, is not diminishing her outfit.......Read things properly, and not concoct, your own version of it....It might not be quite so painful to you.

Edited February 15 by TRO

[lapal_fan]

If he's shit on the pitch (and God knows I wanted him to be great), could he just bitch slap Heck out of his CEO thing and do that? 

[sheepyvillian]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

You've seriously got to improve, your interpretation of whats actually being said, opposed to what you think is being said.....If you are not sure, what I mean, ask me....you know what, " Assume" stands for.

I have certainly not suggested, a team full of McGinns.....but I don't think his blood and thunder approach, would hurt anyone, are you seriously suggesting, a pugnacious or truculent player is a bad thing, to add to our already expansive football.

I suggest you watch one or two of the top 3 to see their aggressive manner on occasions.....They are not all Mo Salahs or Bernado Silvas.....Take a look, you might find a Rodri or Rice......and errrrrr No. I am not saying McGinn is as good as them

I have just mentioned McGinns whole hearted approach, and you have gone off on a tangent, as if I have condemned, every footballer born.....you then seem to want to go in to McGinns, every attribute for examination.?????????

I do think John McGinn is blessed with a Celtic spirit, and I do think its a valuable part of our team....yes, even a modern team.....to suggest that I am dismissing the silky skills of the game, by mentioning it, is Folly.

For Example......If an elegantly dressed Woman, is out in the open and it starts raining,  offering some additional cover, is not diminishing her outfit.......Read things properly, and not concoct, your own version of it....It might not be quite so painful to you.

Put it this way, of all the outfield players, I would put money on McGinn being the first name on that team sheet. 

[avfc1982am]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

You've seriously got to improve, your interpretation of whats actually being said, opposed to what you think is being said.....If you are not sure, what I mean, ask me....you know what, " Assume" stands for.

I have certainly not suggested, a team full of McGinns.....but I don't think his blood and thunder approach, would hurt anyone, are you seriously suggesting, a pugnacious or truculent player is a bad thing, to add to our already expansive football.

I suggest you watch one or two of the top 3 to see their aggressive manner on occasions.....They are not all Mo Salahs or Bernado Silvas.....Take a look, you might find a Rodri or Rice......and errrrrr No. I am not saying McGinn is as good as them

I have just mentioned McGinns whole hearted approach, and you have gone off on a tangent, as if I have condemned, every footballer born.....you then seem to want to go in to McGinns, every attribute for examination.?????????

I do think John McGinn is blessed with a Celtic spirit, and I do think its a valuable part of our team....yes, even a modern team.....to suggest that I am dismissing the silky skills of the game, by mentioning it, is Folly.

For Example......If an elegantly dressed Woman, is out in the open and it starts raining,  offering some additional cover, is not diminishing her outfit.......Read things properly, and not concoct, your own version of it....It might not be quite so painful to you.

The problem with your original post is it's in the Zaniolo thread. He's not a central or defensive midfielder by nature, like McGinn, Rodri or Rice. I also think he puts himself about far more than Bailey, Diaby, Ramsey so why not use these players as a comparison considering positionally these are the areas he plays?  He's also picked up bookings even in his cameo performances so undoubtedly he's not shirking challenges or not trying. If anything he's putting himself about too much to try and impress, or through frustration. He's definitely not a passive individual if you look back at his games historically, here and elsewhere. 

Maybe if you'd used a comparable player in the first instance then the response would have been completely different. I don't see you questioning Diaby's heart considering he get's continually bullied. Problem is people see a lad over 6ft and immediately expect him to bulldoze everyone. Maybe if the kid felt more valued and got a run of games where he normally plays everyone would see more spirit and more fight for the cause. 

He's come into a new Country, new culture, been a fill in for the 8 position while Ramsey was out, which he'd never played before, then has had bit part games at best in his normal position without having the opportunity to get a run of games and find any form whatsoever.  

 

[avfc1982am]

5 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

Put it this way, of all the outfield players, I would put money on McGinn being the first name on that team sheet. 

We'll he's the Captain so of course he would be. He wasn't when Emery first arrived though. 

Is he the best player... he's not even the best midfielder. 

And I really like McGinn before this turns into a McGinn hating discussion. 

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

The problem with your original post is it's in the Zaniolo thread. He's not a central or defensive midfielder by nature, like McGinn, Rodri or Rice. I also think he puts himself about far more than Bailey, Diaby, Ramsey so why not use these players as a comparison considering positionally these are the areas he plays?  He's also picked up bookings even in his cameo performances so undoubtedly he's not shirking challenges or not trying. If anything he's putting himself about too much to try and impress, or through frustration. He's definitely not a passive individual if you look back at his games historically, here and elsewhere. 

Maybe if you'd used a comparable player in the first instance then the response would have been completely different. I don't see you questioning Diaby's heart considering he get's continually bullied. Problem is people see a lad over 6ft and immediately expect him to bulldoze everyone. Maybe if the kid felt more valued and got a run of games where he normally plays everyone would see more spirit and more fight for the cause. 

He's come into a new Country, new culture, been a fill in for the 8 position while Ramsey was out, which he'd never played before, then has had bit part games at best in his normal position without having the opportunity to get a run of games and find any form whatsoever.  

 

....Because VillaChris was talking about Zaniolo, and so was I, and I was merely, describing the "inner spirit" could be better...and using McTominay, and McGinn as examples, with Andy Gray for good measure.......  purely Props to the main point of Zaniolo's spirit and determination, observed by me.

The point being made, was the comparison in " Fire in the belly" nothing more, nothing less.....You can list all the mitigating factors, you choose, but the observations, remain the same....oh and bye the way, my observations are not limited to one game...the sort of thing, I am refering to was his execution of a fine goal against Sheff Utd, which was opposite to my point....so he can do it. Just more often please.

The second emboldened bit was:

....because, I wasn't talking about Diaby. I can't list the whole team, just to make a point on one player. I was responding to another poster, remember that.

also, People see a lad over 6ft and expect to see him use his frame to the best possible good for the team...is that so hard, to comprehend?. The conditions you mention, in his mitigation, could relate to many, many footballers who chance their arm at earning obscene sums of money.

Like I say, go back, read what I said..... and you might feel different.

ps Oh and bye the way, if you read some of my posts on Zaniolo, I have been patient and supportive,of him, and still am.....would I sign him, if it was up to me, probably not, now.

[TRO]

27 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

We'll he's the Captain so of course he would be. He wasn't when Emery first arrived though. 

Is he the best player... he's not even the best midfielder. 

And I really like McGinn before this turns into a McGinn hating discussion. 

you started it, I just mentioned him in passing.....In the Zaniolo thread.

not to digress,but how do you define best?.....when all the midfielders have different roles, with in that dep't.

Edited February 15 by TRO

[duke313]

16 hours ago, est1874 said:

What exactly is his position then? Because we've seen him utilised on the right, left and in the centre.

He’s hardly played on the right, which is where he should be playing. He’s mainly been played on the left since he’s been here.

[TRO]

18 hours ago, est1874 said:

I don't think he's crap but I've changed my mind on him too:

I thought he would come good with us, but for some reason, a lot of players come here off the back of good runs elsewhere and end up looking awful, and never quite come good.

Nicolo is one. I just can't see him making it in the PL, certainly not with us. Send him back.

Players, have to be given time, and sure that means reasonable game time.....but managers have to win matches too.

I think eventually, we all get to see enough.....to make an informed decision to ourselves, of whether we are comfortable, with a player, or not.

Some players, get a bit of luck, and get extended runs, through circumstances, and hit the desired standard....its not an exact science.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

If he's shit on the pitch (and God knows I wanted him to be great), could he just bitch slap Heck out of his CEO thing and do that? 

Hmmmmmmmmm

[avfc1982am]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

....Because VillaChris was talking about Zaniolo, and so was I, and I was merely, describing the "inner spirit" could be better...and using McTominay, and McGinn as examples, with Andy Gray for good measure.......  purely Props to the main point of Zaniolo's spirit and determination, observed by me.

The point being made, was the comparison in " Fire in the belly" nothing more, nothing less.....You can list all the mitigating factors, you choose, but the observations, remain the same....oh and bye the way, my observations are not limited to one game...the sort of thing, I am refering to was his execution of a fine goal against Sheff Utd, which was opposite to my point....so he can do it. Just more often please.

The second emboldened bit was:

....because, I wasn't talking about Diaby. I can't list the whole team, just to make a point on one player. I was responding to another poster, remember that.

also, People see a lad over 6ft and expect to see him use his frame to the best possible good for the team...is that so hard, to comprehend?. The conditions you mention, in his mitigation, could relate to many, many footballers who chance their arm at earning obscene sums of money.

Like I say, go back, read what I said..... and you might feel different.

ps Oh and bye the way, if you read some of my posts on Zaniolo, I have been patient and supportive,of him, and still am.....would I sign him, if it was up to me, probably not, now.

TRO, you mentioned that, he's passive for a big lad and he doesn't seem to have fire in his belly to make things work. Then you pointed McGinn as an example of this attribute, hence why I responded to your post, even if I went off at a slight tangent. I haven't suggested that you haven't been supportive of him however, not everyone has the attitude of McGinn. Other than Kamara our midfield are all pretty lightweight to a point, and there are also a lot of players in the side without what you might call "fire in their belly" or that nastiness to bully opponents. 

I think personally think it's harsh to label him as passive or question his inner spirit when he's had very little chance to impress since the away game in Europe and the Sheff Utd game. Which incidentally should have been the catalyst for him getting a run of games in his preferred position, but no, he got dropped back to the bench and reduced down to cameo appearances. It's enough to knock anyone's confidence when you might feel you're making headway, especially when we've been pretty poor as a team the last couple of months. 

Imo confidence and the lack of it is the main factor in what we are witnessing with Zaniolo. Whether or not that is the only factor as to why it's not working out for him, time will tell, but l don't see passiveness or his size and lack of strength as the reason at all.