Teale's 'tache Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 19 minutes ago, sne said: Nice. But wouldn't it have been cheaper to stick with the round badge they already paid for? Or is it used in so few places that it wouldn't have mattered? The round badge is only on kits/training gear which change every year anyway, so the cost of replacing it is negligible. The cost of keeping it and rolling out everywhere is a lot, I read a figure of around £10m somewhere, but I forget where. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 This still doesn’t make any sense at all. The whole rebranding exercise (under heck) + any lower costs in an amateurish phased rollout would still be more expensive than sticking with the crest that was finalised under purslow (and the club had already started updating some of branding with that crest). It would be even more amateurish if as a hugely visible business we ran three bloody crests because we hadn’t had the sense to run branded paper stock down before the crest launch. My sense is you’re just trying to create something that appears logical to explain such mind boggling incompetence when basically there is none. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteExile Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 9 minutes ago, DakotaVilla said: This makes zero sense. if cost was the primary factor then he would have stuck with the perfectly functional crest that was about to be launched. Also there is zero difference in cost between evolution of existing brand vs new brand. You still have to update *everything*. no, this was only about one thing and one thing only. President Business’ Ego and belief that he - with zero consultation with anyone - could do it better…..and we’ve all seen the quality of his output. Hopefully he’s done enough to get fired before he does more permanent damage elsewhere. That would be the only saving grace of this self inflicted ego trip of a disaster. There's enough familiar aspects in this dog dirt Heck version, so as not to see a complete overhaul where the Lerner efforts are used throughout Villa Park. at the training ground and in branded media etc. So I get the logic. But it's pissweak original branding in the first place, so it's odd we (or more acccurately Heck) want to hold on to it. Purslow instinctively got the club and its heritage and status in the British game. Heck will show no such sentiment or interest, clearly. His remit seems to be cut costs and drive revenue. Nothing else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrchnry Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Just now, DakotaVilla said: This still doesn’t make any sense at all. The whole rebranding exercise (under heck) + any lower costs in an amateurish phased rollout would still be more expensive than sticking with the crest that was finalised under purslow (and the club had already started updating some of branding with that crest). It would be even more amateurish if as a hugely visible business we ran three bloody crests because we hadn’t had the sense to run branded paper stock down before the crest launch. My sense is you’re just trying to create something that appears logical to explain such mind boggling incompetence when basically there is none. How will it be more expensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 Imagine if managed to get a nice kit next season only for it to be spoiled by that betting sponsor, that comical A150U blob and a badge that looks like a poorly pirated knock off attempt. Hope it's stitched on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 So now the tune is changing from Heck’s the best sports branding exec in the world and we should “trust the professionals” to he’s done a crap job to save a few quid. God save me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) Spurs did an amazing rebrand about 15 years ago and it was money well spent. It shifted that club and how it is perceived. Amateur hour at the Villa by comparison. Edited January 6 by Captain_Townsend 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DakotaVilla Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 It’s polite to even call it that. More like “blind dog” or “preschool” hour at best. I’m genuinely speechless at how bloody bad it and the AV150 mark is and how they got through any type of internal consultation. Would suggest there may be some basis to the rumours re Heck’s authoritarian style…. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 8 minutes ago, HolteExile said: There's enough familiar aspects in this dog dirt Heck version, so as not to see a complete overhaul where the Lerner efforts are used throughout Villa Park. at the training ground and in branded media etc. I'd be incredibly disappointed if after all of this they think it's acceptable to just leave the old badge up around the ground because it's "close enough". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 To think we have a fan who is a globally renowned expert in these matters...I mean, three club crests in 12 months. You don't need to be Einstein to know that is very badly handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 9 hours ago, Jas10 said: So this is the kind of taste you have? An invisible lion or yellow blob? Not at all. That's obviously absurd, and the photo is overexposed in the lighter parts too. The layout of the new one is absolutely fine. It's good in fact (as I say I am totally owning the fact I have worked 'a little' in design here—I actually freelanced but I wasn't really a 'pro' pro). My only problems with it are the colours and the shittier lion. I don't like the light blue light yellow combo at all, but if those colours are tweaked and at least one of them is made darker and more saturated, the design works. The Lerner badge is nowhere near as good as the new one. And tweaking and honing and improving a design is a complicated process. Sure people have magic ideas for amazing magic badges in their heads, but in reality it's actually quite difficult. And like it or not the Lerner badge has been our identity for 15 years. Improving on it (vastly improving on it) makes sense from a commercial point of view. Edited January 6 by Rolta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 8 minutes ago, Captain_Townsend said: To think we have a fan who is a globally renowned expert in these matters...I mean, three club crests in 12 months. You don't need to be Einstein to know that is very badly handled. Thank you, I know I’m seen as having the brilliance of a generation, a genius beyond our time but I’m not really an expert in these matters mate. I’m just a bloke who has good taste. I appreciate the compliment though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted January 6 Popular Post Share Posted January 6 8 minutes ago, Rolta said: The Lerner badge is nowhere near as good as the new one. I simply don't agree with this. On top of retaining the colour issue you've identified, they've made it look horrendously unbalanced by cramping the lion at the top stacked on top of two rows of text, and the misaligned text looks incredibly amatuer, on top of adding another element, the 1874, in white, to get lost on the blue as much as the star does. For me, they've taken a bad starting reference point and made it worse. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteExile Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 The Lerner badge was complete cack to start with, from the light yellow on light blue issue to the odd mix of fonts and totally bland featureless lion. The second incarnation did at least seem to sharpen the design up; removing the 'prepared' (which ironically looked like an afterthought), removing the spacing and adding more detail to make the lion look more prominent. With an embroidered lion the effect was closer to gold than light yellow and stood out much better. This new effort undoes all that. And (somehow) has worse balance than even the original Lerner botch job. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 6 VT Supporter Share Posted January 6 12 minutes ago, Rolta said: Not at all. That's obviously absurd, and the photo is overexposed in the lighter parts too. The layout of the new one is absolutely fine. It's good in fact (as I say I am totally owning the fact I have worked 'a little' in design here—I actually freelanced but I wasn't really a 'pro' pro). My only problems with it are the colours and the shittier lion. I don't like the light blue light yellow combo at all, but if those colours are tweaked and at least one of them is made darker and more saturated, the design works. The Lerner badge is nowhere near as good as the new one. And tweaking and honing and improving a design is a complicated process. Sure people have magic ideas for amazing magic badges in their heads, but in reality it's actually quite difficult. And like it or not the Lerner badge has been our identity for 15 years. Improving on it (vastly improving on it) makes sense from a commercial point of view. It genuinely doesn't improve on it. It's an improvement over the original Lerner badge. It's not an improvement on the latest iteration of the Lerner badge. It's a backwards step This is a better badge than what we've ended up with. Especially with the white outline when it's on the shirts (Now admittedly the new Heck badge might look better in the flesh too, that remains to be seen) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 I don't get how an evolution of the Lerner badge is any less expensive than an entirely new badge. You still have to replace it everywhere. I guess maybe you don't have to in places where it's just the lion? Just do it properly ffs. Spend the money. Cheaping out on a rebrand is something you'd expect from a non-league club. If we want to be a massive global club we need to act like one and branding is integral to that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I simply don't agree with this. On top of retaining the colour issue you've identified, they've made it look horrendously unbalanced by cramping the lion at the top stacked on top of two rows of text, and the misaligned text looks incredibly amatuer, on top of adding another element, the 1874, in white, to get lost on the blue as much as the star does. For me, they've taken a bad starting reference point and made it worse. It doesn't matter if the 1874 gets lost a little. It's not that important. Plenty of badges have elements that get a little lost. The main things are prominent—the lion and the name. Giving the lion the pride (ahem) of place is sensible from a design point of view. The balance between lettering and lion and empty space is awful in the original (or v2) Lerner badge. The text is too big compared to the lion. The two elements are competing for focus in the heirarchy of the design. There is no question that the heirarchy is better in the new one. Putting the lion on top isn't an issue either. The Lerner badge is so basic and has no gravitas. The new one actually has a touch of that, genuine gravitas. My first reaction to the new badge was 'what the ****!', but I can see what they're doing. The backlash is such a shame imo (though I admit I have my version with the good lion in my head now). How they can go back to the shittier lion I have no idea. I played about with it briefly. I actually think the 1874 is too big in the new design. I think getting the colours working is tough. The claret lion is a bit dull for me. This was just a quick go though. Edited January 6 by Rolta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolta Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: It genuinely doesn't improve on it. It's an improvement over the original Lerner badge. It's not an improvement on the latest iteration of the Lerner badge. It's a backwards step This is a better badge than what we've ended up with. Especially with the white outline when it's on the shirts (Now admittedly the new Heck badge might look better in the flesh too, that remains to be seen) I wholeheartedly and completely disagree. That badge is so lifeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 18 minutes ago, Rolta said: Not at all. That's obviously absurd, and the photo is overexposed in the lighter parts too. The layout of the new one is absolutely fine. It's good in fact (as I say I am totally owning the fact I have worked 'a little' in design here—I actually freelanced but I wasn't really a 'pro' pro). My only problems with it are the colours and the shittier lion. I don't like the light blue light yellow combo at all, but if those colours are tweaked and at least one of them is made darker and more saturated, the design works. The Lerner badge is nowhere near as good as the new one. And tweaking and honing and improving a design is a complicated process. Sure people have magic ideas for amazing magic badges in their heads, but in reality it's actually quite difficult. And like it or not the Lerner badge has been our identity for 15 years. Improving on it (vastly improving on it) makes sense from a commercial point of view. I'm not sure how it vastly improves on it. At best it's a break even. It's better to have the full club name on it, but a drop shadow and the 1874 in white on a sky blue base? Amateur hour. The Lerner badge has some obvious design problems but it's cleaner than the new badge, which has the same design problems plus a couple of new ones. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 6 VT Supporter Share Posted January 6 Just now, Rolta said: I wholeheartedly and completely disagree. That badge is so lifeless. It wasn't a defence of the Lerner badge. It's shit. But this new one is worse in every way 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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