Pau Torres

[tonyh29]

his defending isn't great at times and clearly but for the Mings injury he would have been give more time to adapt to the English game 

but he's a quality asset to the team that still out weights his short comings as a defender , we just have to accept that from time to time he will get done 

[DJBOB]

To no surprise, he was done for by a strong striker - the type of player we already predicted he would struggle against.

Next up - Haaland....

[andym]

8 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

It was an excellent turn, and I think Pau thought Luiz had Solanke covered, but Luiz suddenly passed him on. 
 

Not sure what else he could do to be honest

Luiz went to intercept the ball across (and should have easily done so), but for some reason let it go under his foot.

Torres was maybe guilty over committing a little which didn't allow him to recover, but a defender not getting super touch tight in that situation is not exactly unusual now with how VAR seems to work - get too close and physical and the attacker will feel any contact, go down and probably get a pen.

There's goals every week where a defender looks like they have stood off too easily and hasn't committed. Diaz at Man City allowed Lo Celso time and space to score his goal yesterday, Gabriel at Arsenal did the same against Wolves - just stood there with his arms behind his back. I think a lot of the time its by design; with the speed the game is played at, and the presence of VAR, you dive in and you are highly likely to either take yourself out of the play or give away a penalty. Stand off and at least with you still there you reduce the options for the attacker, and you give your keeper time to get set or a teammate to get back and help.

[BigJim]

3 minutes ago, andym said:

Luiz went to intercept the ball across (and should have easily done so), but for some reason let it go under his foot.

Yeah I think Luiz could have done better there, but neither of them looked likely to stop the threat.

[spiezels]

On 04/12/2023 at 23:40, DJBOB said:

To no surprise, he was done for by a strong striker - the type of player we already predicted he would struggle against.

Next up - Haaland....

One where we’ll miss mings physicality. He had him in his pocket. 
 

 

[Zero7]

Not sure I’d play him tonight. Wonder if Carlos would be a better match up against halland 

[thunderball]

28 minutes ago, Zero7 said:

Not sure I’d play him tonight. Wonder if Carlos would be a better match up against halland 

Pau is key to how we now play. If we give up and just approach it as backs to the wall defending then maybe, but we play as a team, in a system and he is a big part of that. Haaland is clearly the big threat and Mings has managed him well in previous encounters, and Carlos is on a good run but if he plays I dont see it being at the expense of Torres.

[Tomaszk]

16 minutes ago, thunderball said:

Pau is key to how we now play. If we give up and just approach it as backs to the wall defending then maybe, but we play as a team, in a system and he is a big part of that. Haaland is clearly the big threat and Mings has managed him well in previous encounters, and Carlos is on a good run but if he plays I dont see it being at the expense of Torres.

We can play that way without Torres. Just like we do every game under Emery.

Unai had Konsa Mings playing it out in a way I didn't think was possible most of last season.

[Tom13]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

Unai had Konsa Mings playing it out in a way I didn't think was possible most of last season.

Nowhere near the level of Torres though.

[TRO]

On 04/12/2023 at 01:09, villan95 said:

Surprised no one has mentioned how easily Solanke turned him for the 2nd goal.

I think your point is valid.....but many other teams do seem to have an army of bodies, in such circumstances to crowd out these incidents....just too easy to score against.

We do seem so open to me, and just let individual players get on with defending, others seem to swarm threats, with more intensity than we do.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, thunderball said:

Pau is key to how we now play. If we give up and just approach it as backs to the wall defending then maybe, but we play as a team, in a system and he is a big part of that. Haaland is clearly the big threat and Mings has managed him well in previous encounters, and Carlos is on a good run but if he plays I dont see it being at the expense of Torres.

We have clearly lost a huge attribute to the team that Mings Brings.

maybe with Mings 30 and Carlos 30....its time to be looking for a dominant " Alpha Male" at the back.

I agree, Pau, brings so much to the offensive side of the game.....but we have to look at the defensive side for compensation and balance.

[lexicon]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

We have clearly lost a huge attribute to the team that Mings Brings.

maybe with Mings 30 and Carlos 30....its time to be looking for a dominant " Alpha Male" at the back.

I agree, Pau, brings so much to the offensive side of the game.....but we have to look at the defensive side for compensation and balance.

I don't think it's necessary tbh. Konsa and Torres is a great partnership and absolutely fine as first choice. Lenglet and Carlos are both as good deputies as we could hope for. The issue is when we have to shift Konsa out to RB because we don't have a proper rotation option for Cash, because EK doesn't get to rest. 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, lexicon said:

I don't think it's necessary tbh. Konsa and Torres is a great partnership and absolutely fine as first choice. Lenglet and Carlos are both as good deputies as we could hope for. The issue is when we have to shift Konsa out to RB because we don't have a proper rotation option for Cash, because EK doesn't get to rest. 

I get that.....but why do you think, we are quite easy to score against?.....and I am talking primarliy lower half teams.

[TRO]

On 04/12/2023 at 23:33, andym said:

Luiz went to intercept the ball across (and should have easily done so), but for some reason let it go under his foot.

Torres was maybe guilty over committing a little which didn't allow him to recover, but a defender not getting super touch tight in that situation is not exactly unusual now with how VAR seems to work - get too close and physical and the attacker will feel any contact, go down and probably get a pen.

There's goals every week where a defender looks like they have stood off too easily and hasn't committed. Diaz at Man City allowed Lo Celso time and space to score his goal yesterday, Gabriel at Arsenal did the same against Wolves - just stood there with his arms behind his back. I think a lot of the time its by design; with the speed the game is played at, and the presence of VAR, you dive in and you are highly likely to either take yourself out of the play or give away a penalty. Stand off and at least with you still there you reduce the options for the attacker, and you give your keeper time to get set or a teammate to get back and help.

I think you make some good points.

However, getting close to an opponent spooks them, and it deters them from executing training ground, practices.

goal scorers need space, like a fire needs oxygen.....closing down that space, is not the same as reckless challenges, The top defenders, just let you know they are there, without tangible commitment.

I agree, Defending has to be stealthier, all the more reason why, reading of the game ( Game IQ) is imperative....Macca would love this, as would Beckenbaur, allowing for athleticism from era to era.

Most goals conceded, I see, is a result of players, out of position, or a failure to pre-spot danger.....as an example, the back post is a breeding ground for goals, how many defenders are savvy to that?

How many stop the all important cross...BEFORE it becomes a problem, and the resulting ball chipped in, becomes a sitting duck, for game headers of the ball...its too easy for assertive/aggressive attackers.

I accept your point about the advent of fussy officials.....but the search for Intelligent defenders, with a mission to defy goal scorers, is a must for me.

 

[Tomaszk]

1 hour ago, Tom13 said:

Nowhere near the level of Torres though.

Obviously not but it's no good if we concede more goals.

Last year with Konsa and Mings we picked up 2.4 points a game for the last 14 games if the season. Joke form. Emery can lift the performance of players to an astonishing degree.

We need the top earners to step up and show why they're the top men.

Vamos Pau.

[thunderball]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

We have clearly lost a huge attribute to the team that Mings Brings.

maybe with Mings 30 and Carlos 30....its time to be looking for a dominant " Alpha Male" at the back.

I agree, Pau, brings so much to the offensive side of the game.....but we have to look at the defensive side for compensation and balance.

I have a sense we have regressed defensively this term at the expense of our offensive game. However it is working out given where we are in the table. We have a new psychology of defending as a team and attacking as a team, we no longer just have a defence who defend, we need to get used to that. On balance the gains outweigh the losses and that will provide plenty of ammo for haters, but as has been pointed out, if Pau defended to the same standard as his progressive side, we couldn't afford him.

[avfc1982am]

Why do people always suggest our players are below the standard of players top clubs or they wouldn't be here? I never get that nonsense. 

Martinez worlds number 1, Dougie in the top 5 PL CM's. You could argue Pau and Konsa are in the top 10 PL CB defenders. Watkins in the top 3 CF's in the PL. 

You can look at the stats across the board and they suggest we have players just as good if not better than most PL players in the same position. We are playing very differently to last season hence why the defensive stats aren't as good but the attacking stats better. It's nothing to do with having lesser players.

[lexicon]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I get that.....but why do you think, we are quite easy to score against?.....and I am talking primarliy lower half teams.

I have a few points to address/answer your question:

1) We're definitely not easy to score against at home. We've conceded the 2nd fewest goals at home. 

2) Away games are tougher than ever before in league history given the relative standard of team we play against.

3) Our style of play is to win games, so we attack a lot and that will leave us open at times where we will concede. 

4) The Newcastle game was a freak result and the 5 goals we conceded skews our numbers.

I know it's normal for us to have obvious problems, because, well, it's Villa, but we're not in that position right now IMO. We're doing fantastically well this season. I would look to find an upgrade on Cash as a priority, but beyond that, our defence (and the rest of the team) is fine IMO. 

[DJBOB]

1 hour ago, lexicon said:

I have a few points to address/answer your question:

1) We're definitely not easy to score against at home. We've conceded the 2nd fewest goals at home. 

2) Away games are tougher than ever before in league history given the relative standard of team we play against.

3) Our style of play is to win games, so we attack a lot and that will leave us open at times where we will concede. 

4) The Newcastle game was a freak result and the 5 goals we conceded skews our numbers.

I know it's normal for us to have obvious problems, because, well, it's Villa, but we're not in that position right now IMO. We're doing fantastically well this season. I would look to find an upgrade on Cash as a priority, but beyond that, our defence (and the rest of the team) is fine IMO. 

More to the point to this - if you remove Matchweek 1, we will have given up 2 more goals than Arsenal/Liverpool/Newcastle and one less goal than City.

I think as Villa fans, the end is always around the corner or it's a "too good to be true" scenario, but we have been playing excellently. It's just that playing away is VERY hard in the league right now - see Arsenal barely scraping by Luton.

The home field advantage is very pronounced this year - which is to be expected with the hyper preparation that every club now employs. Everything from the routine of the coach ride over, the specific distances of the pitch, even the way the ball is in flight and how the crowd can obscure it - now plays an even larger advantage.

And that's without saying nothing about how the refs cave to the home crowd boos and jeers - something we need to capitalize on to give Pau a chance against Haaland.

Edited December 6, 2023 by DJBOB

[Osirus]

He's like Pirlo at the back, great performance tonight