Relegation Avoidance Thread

[picicata]

5 minutes ago, The_Steve said:

Feels like this isn't spoken of enough. Also, Smith's refusal to play likes of Philogene-Bidace despite his excellent pre-season form was mind boggling. Smith was just as guilty of leaving out such players at the expense of say, Ashley Young, but that's quickly forgotten. Too often we are stop-start, but that isn't exclusively a Gerrard problem. The coaching changes also massively impacted us early in the season as Smith regressed.

We've got so many exciting young players to integrate next season which makes it all the more interesting as to who leaves.

I think the two preseason games that were cancelled due to COVID really sent us into the season undercooked and left us playing catch up. It damaged our confidence and I don't think we've ever really recovered.

[picicata]

6 minutes ago, picicata said:

Not doubting the statistics but we were 16th when Dean left and currently we are 15th so how are we 11th in the league since Gerrard came in? We weren't that far adrift under Dean were we? Maths is a funny old bastard

To answer my own maths query I suppose it's because teams from below us eg Newcastle have massively improved

[Peter Griffin]

9 minutes ago, picicata said:

Not doubting the statistics but we were 16th when Dean left and currently we are 15th so how are we 11th in the league since Gerrard came in? We weren't that far adrift under Dean were we? Maths is a funny old bastard

Yet people wanted to keep Deano and want rid of Gerrard 

[picicata]

4 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Yet people wanted to keep Deano and want rid of Gerrard 

True. Though I suspect most accepted Deano going but hoped for a proper upgrade as a result.

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, picicata said:

True. Though I suspect most accepted Deano going but hoped for a proper upgrade as a result.

We knowingly appointed an inexperienced manager and it is clear we wanted to change how we play football with this appointment. There is a lot of risk associated with this strategy but that is the strategy CP and NSWE have agreed upon. I think it is way too early to say SG is not a 'proper' upgrade given the fact we knew we were taking on a guy that has little experience and none in the PL. He needs more than 20 games to judge whether he will be a success or not. 

[Condimentalist]

1 hour ago, Peter Griffin said:

Yet people wanted to keep Deano and want rid of Gerrard 

Probably because Deano had earned the time for the job he did.  Gerrard has no track record to trade on other than mixed success in Scotland.

I want to believe Gerrard is an upgrade but that would be based more on hope than what I've seen so far. 

I have to say though, a strong end to the season and it all looks very different heading into the summer. 

[Keyblade]

1 hour ago, Peter Griffin said:

We knowingly appointed an inexperienced manager and it is clear we wanted to change how we play football with this appointment. There is a lot of risk associated with this strategy but that is the strategy CP and NSWE have agreed upon. I think it is way too early to say SG is not a 'proper' upgrade given the fact we knew we were taking on a guy that has little experience and none in the PL. He needs more than 20 games to judge whether he will be a success or not. 

Doesn't seem particularly prudent to drop one long term project at the first sign of a hiccup for a completely different one.

It seems more like to me that the gamble simply isn't paying off and that they wanted a proper upgrade and it just isn't currently working out to be that way. 

[Peter Griffin]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

Doesn't seem particularly prudent to drop one long term project at the first sign of a hiccup for a completely different one.

It seems more like to me that the gamble simply isn't paying off and that they wanted a proper upgrade and it just isn't currently working out to be that way. 

I am not sure it was the first sign of a hiccup. Do u remember surviving in the PL on the last day of the season away to WestHam? 

[Zatman]

Just now, Peter Griffin said:

I am not sure it was the first sign of a hiccup. Do u remember surviving in the PL on the last day of the season away to WestHam? 

That wasn't a hiccup unless you expected a comfortable finish after necesaarily buying new squad 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Zatman

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

That wasn't a hiccup unless you expected a comfortable finish after necesaarily buying new squad 

There is absolutely zero chance that after spending 144m on players that Deano or CP or NSWE expected to leave it to the last day and rely on Bournemouth messing up. We were brutal for very long periods of that season. Yes, we survived but it was absolutely not the plan to do it that way no matter what way it is dressed up

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

There is absolutely zero chance that after spending 144m on players that Deano or CP or NSWE expected to leave it to the last day and rely on Bournemouth messing up. We were brutal for very long periods of that season. Yes, we survived but it was absolutely not the plan to do it that way no matter what way it is dressed up

Was 10 million a player, if they didnt expect to be in a close relegation battle playing Samatta, Trezeguet, Elmo and Borja Baston then they were incredibly naive

[Keyblade]

7 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I am not sure it was the first sign of a hiccup. Do u remember surviving in the PL on the last day of the season away to WestHam? 

Yes, and I remember that being job well done. Were you expecting to stay up comfortably that season? 

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

Yes, and I remember that being job well done. Were you expecting to stay up comfortably that season? 

See comment above. There is zero chance staying up like that was the plan. That was a hiccup. Suggesting otherwise is folly. On the last day it could have gone either way whether we stayed up or went down. Fortunately we stayed up but to deny it as a hiccup in Deano's reign is just daft

[Tomaszk]

2 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

We knowingly appointed an inexperienced manager and it is clear we wanted to change how we play football with this appointment.

Is it clear? What change are we trying to make? A positive one I presume.

He can start by not playing everyone in the middle of the pitch, that'll help.

The manager has already given up this year and started talking about how much money he's spending in the summer, and how he's going to replace players. What a treat for him.

We are going to get better next season. We're going to bring in three or four >£20m players. Looking forward to some decent performances again.

[Peter Griffin]

1 minute ago, Tomaszk said:

Is it clear? What change are we trying to make? A positive one I presume.

He can start by not playing everyone in the middle of the pitch, that'll help.

The manager has already given up this year and started talking about how much money he's spending in the summer, and how he's going to replace players. What a treat for him.

We are going to get better next season. We're going to bring in three or four >£20m players. Looking forward to some decent performances again.

It is crystal clear. Do you not see us playing different football than we did under Deano? 

although none of us know what is discussed inside Vill Park and I think we can all agree that the changes made with the manager and the playing style are designed to improve us and push us up the table. We don't know whether they will work or not but 20 games is not enough to make a judgement on Gerrard. He may turn out to be rubbish or he may turn out to be brilliant. None of us know as we don't have a crystal ball. 

[Keyblade]

4 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

See comment above. There is zero chance staying up like that was the plan. That was a hiccup. Suggesting otherwise is folly. On the last day it could have gone either way whether we stayed up or went down. Fortunately we stayed up but to deny it as a hiccup in Deano's reign is just daft

We spent about 12m per player on the likes of Nakamba, Trezeguet, Wesley etc on an almost entirely new squad as a newly promoted side. There's no way anybody expected it wasn't going to be a dogfight to stay in the league, I'm sorry.

[Peter Griffin]

Just now, Keyblade said:

We spent about 12m per player on the likes of Nakamba, Trezeguet, Wesley etc on an almost entirely new squad as a newly promoted side. There's no way anybody expected it wasn't going to be a dogfight to stay in the league, I'm sorry.

I never said it wouldn't be a dogfight. i am saying unequivocally that leaving it to the last day and relying on Bournemouth messing up was not in the plan. PL survival will have been expected before that. That was a hiccup. 

[Tomaszk]

1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said:

I never said it wouldn't be a dogfight. i am saying unequivocally that leaving it to the last day and relying on Bournemouth messing up was not in the plan. PL survival will have been expected before that. That was a hiccup. 

Expected by fools maybe. After all...

5 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

None of us know as we don't have a crystal ball. 

[Laughable Chimp]

Just now, Keyblade said:

We spent about 12m per player on the likes of Nakamba, Trezeguet, Wesley etc on an almost entirely new squad as a newly promoted side. There's no way anybody expected it wasn't going to be a dogfight to stay in the league, I'm sorry.

Nah, I remember going through an old poll which polled the expectations of this forum for which position we would finish in the season. Even after ignoring the joke votes, the average position it got was 14th. So yeah, people weren't as pessimistic as you think although expectations quickly changed as the season went on.

Besides, even if most people expected a relegation battle, there's a big difference between a relegation battle where we still finished relatively safe at around 14-15th and a relegation battle where we looked dead certs to be relegated for significant parts of the season and only stayed up on 1 point on the last day where circumstances could've easily gone differently

 

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

5 hours ago, Xela said:

The facts show he's not doing that bad a job as people try to make out. 11th in the league since he's been here - 3 points less than West Ham, but played 2 games less. 

Yes, It's not brilliant, I agree, but the noises being made by a few on here make out like he's Lee Bowyer!

 

3 hours ago, Zatman said:

Well I break it up to 2 parts and that is the new manager bounce and the mini pre season in his words he had in January. We were fine in the new manager bounce period

The facts since his mini pre season we have been except for 3 impressive wins and except for brief moments its really poor. We are 16th in the 2022 table and only 3 teams have lost more and thats Everton, Norwich and Watford

Trying to work out why I feel so down about SG despite the statistic about us being 11th in the table since his arrival, and I think his issue is that we've really only won or lost matches. For most teams a draw is a 'positive result', especially if it's against a team higher in the table, but we basically never draw, so we have won more than others in that table but also lost more as well. If we just converted *some* of these long strings of losses into draws people would probably feel disproportionately happier even if it didn't have much effect on our league placing come the end of the season.