Energy Bills

[Genie]

1 hour ago, bickster said:

Me, you, the bloke next door. We'll be paying it off as an additional charge on our bills for the next 20 years

Shoukd prove popular with the masses… er not

Are we still getting the tax cuts? 

[sidcow]

25 minutes ago, Genie said:

Are we still getting the tax cuts? 

She's got the gig now. She doesn't need to keep making bullshit promises anymore. 

[Genie]

5 minutes ago, sidcow said:

She's got the gig now. She doesn't need to keep making bullshit promises anymore. 

That’s my suspicion, someone in number 10 will pop a piece of paper under he nose with the national bank account overdraft and tell her she urgently needs to bring in more money so tax cuts are a non starter.

[Mozzavfc]

33 minutes ago, Genie said:

Are we still getting the tax cuts? 

Tax cuts for the ultra rich. Tax rises for the rest of us 

[Genie]

9 minutes ago, Mozzavfc said:

Tax cuts for the ultra rich. Tax rises for the rest of us 

Why should they have to pay for poor people being poor?

[one_ian_taylor]

9 hours ago, Davkaus said:

Paid for by borrowing. So the state is taking on more debt to fund the profits of the energy companies. Marvellous. Usually there are at least a few extra steps of obfuscation before shovelling taxpayer money into private profits.

Yup and there is absolutely  zero - zero - credible  and coherent plan for demand reduction. Just leave it to the market,  surely it will sort itself out is their  only answer

[Davkaus]

1 minute ago, one_ian_taylor said:

Yup and there is absolutely  zero - zero - credible  and coherent plan for demand reduction. Just leave it to the market,  surely it will sort itself out is their  only answer

Indeed. If they've haven't come down in a year, what then. We may well end up paying far higher bills while also paying off this year's "intervention". Even people who got no help this year.

Liz doesn't care, probably won't be in the job by then.

[one_ian_taylor]

6 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

Indeed. If they've haven't come down in a year, what then. We may well end up paying far higher bills while also paying off this year's "intervention". Even people who got no help this year.

Liz doesn't care, probably won't be in the job by then.

What I find astonishing is that it should be such a winning policy area. Invest grant  funding in targeted energy efficiency projects and market development support and in return gain.... lower bills, better energy security, improve trade balance, support growth of UK businesses, reduce strain on health service, create jobs, leverage massive investment. These are all things the Tories profess to want. And I haven't even mentioned the environmental upside

[sidcow]

10 hours ago, one_ian_taylor said:

What I find astonishing is that it should be such a winning policy area. Invest grant  funding in targeted energy efficiency projects and market development support and in return gain.... lower bills, better energy security, improve trade balance, support growth of UK businesses, reduce strain on health service, create jobs, leverage massive investment. These are all things the Tories profess to want. And I haven't even mentioned the environmental upside

I keep going on about this channel but some of those points are raised on here but they also make the point that Britain has so many leading tech companies in this sector. It should be a no brainer. 

Maybe we need some senior Tories and families to buy some shares in some of our best renewable energy / tech firms. 

The rant from Robert Lewellyn on 6 minutes will strike a chord on here

 

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by sidcow

[Jareth]

I feel dirty for reading the spectator but there was a very interesting angle from the tory perspective - feeling is that Truss's energy plan is socialist, anti free market and going to fail - based on the thinking that if people's bills don't go up again they will just use more energy at a time when gas is becoming more scarce and more expensive and therefore more costly to the state. The real tories absolutely detest it. What they miss is that many people already can't afford things and are hardly likely to overuse energy - but let them tory bastards sweat, this is going to be fun. 

[Genie]

Germany and Spain have introduced a number of laws to reduce the consumption of energy (shops lights off after closing, public buildings no longer lit at night, public pools lower temperature, shop doors to be closed if using air con which has a higher minimum temp).

It says so much about the arrogance of the Tories we’ve done none of that. **** it, we’re Britain and we do what we like (until it goes horribly wrong and those that made these decisions are moved on with some other idiots drafted in to try and sort the mess out).

[CVByrne]

14 hours ago, Genie said:

Are we still getting the tax cuts? 

It's literally the only reason the Tory members voted for her. Cut the taxes and don't raise Corporate Tax from 19% to 25%. She cannot go back on those promises. 

[Genie]

Just now, CVByrne said:

It's literally the only reason the Tory members voted for her. Cut the taxes and don't raise Corporate Tax from 19% to 25%. She cannot go back on those promises. 

It madness though isn’t it. I don’t want to pay more tax, but it just isn’t the right time is it.

Its kicking hundreds of billions of debt down the road for the next generations. It’s unbelievably reckless leadership.

[CVByrne]

Just now, Genie said:

It madness though isn’t it. I don’t want to pay more tax, but it just isn’t the right time is it.

Its kicking hundreds of billions of debt down the road for the next generations. It’s unbelievably reckless leadership.

If she didn't promise that then she wouldn't have won. Sunak was the one talking the sensible line in relation to managing the country financially. For a Tory he did some decent work as Chancellor of Exchequer, especially during Covid with the support millions of people needed.

But now, we've the remnant of the remnant of the Party, following the ultra loyalty line rather than competence. The pound is crashing as the markets see an incompetent government incapable of handling the looming crisis which means inflation rises as we import from abroad. 

It's a bad bad situation we're in right now. 

[CVByrne]

Truss will probably have to start the trade war with the EU too over the NI protocol because she got the backing of the Brexit loons. She owes all these favours in return for getting to be PM and combined they will cripple the UK even as we are in midst of the energy crisis

[bickster]

2 hours ago, Jareth said:

I feel dirty for reading the spectator but there was a very interesting angle from the tory perspective - feeling is that Truss's energy plan is socialist, anti free market and going to fail - based on the thinking that if people's bills don't go up again they will just use more energy at a time when gas is becoming more scarce and more expensive and therefore more costly to the state. The real tories absolutely detest it. What they miss is that many people already can't afford things and are hardly likely to overuse energy - but let them tory bastards sweat, this is going to be fun. 

Gas isn't getting more scarce though. Russia has plenty of it, it's being forced to sell it cheaply to non-European countries, India et al will continue to buy from Russia as long as the price is cheap enough. They therefore will not require the more expensive gas they were buying from elsewhere, that gas will then be bought by those missing Russian gas but the market then takes a hell of a long time to adjust to that

[Genie]

Brexit just won’t go away, it would have such a positive effect on the economy, energy, inflation… all the things crippling us now but they just won’t admit it yet.

[CVByrne]

I think the best solution is to cap energy prices at a level and then pay for that via debt which will be paid back by an energy levy over 10/20 years or whatever. It's basically removing the current energy shock and spreading that over next 10/20 years. This is what we do anyway during crisis for the economy, like recently we did with Covid. 

The levy is a % of your bill so more you spend on energy the more you pay in levy. Energy bills will still be very high but not outside of the bounds of historical (as per the Sky video posted a few days back). People will still try to use less energy which will help too. We just need a mild winter now as well to help everyone

[bickster]

30 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I think the best solution is to cap energy prices at a level and then pay for that via debt which will be paid back by an energy levy over 10/20 years or whatever. It's basically removing the current energy shock and spreading that over next 10/20 years. This is what we do anyway during crisis for the economy, like recently we did with Covid. 

The levy is a % of your bill so more you spend on energy the more you pay in levy. Energy bills will still be very high but not outside of the bounds of historical (as per the Sky video posted a few days back). People will still try to use less energy which will help too. We just need a mild winter now as well to help everyone

I think there's scope for the UK to apply further windfall taxes on the energy extraction companies in conjunction with the above. A bit of both, that way it moves us forward with using less energy overall as you say and does bring some of the ludicrous profits back to the people so it doesn't seem like we're paying for everything. There is plenty of scope in that for the extractors to still make very large profits

[CVByrne]

23 minutes ago, bickster said:

I think there's scope for the UK to apply further windfall taxes on the energy extraction companies in conjunction with the above. A bit of both, that way it moves us forward with using less energy overall as you say and does bring some of the ludicrous profits back to the people so it doesn't seem like we're paying for everything. There is plenty of scope in that for the extractors to still make very large profits

Agree 100%. Windfall taxes have more scope for sure.

Also, if we all adjust to higher (but stable) energy prices it will help with climate change. We will focus on being more energy efficient. 

Edited September 7, 2022 by CVByrne