Team shape, tactics and personnel

[TRO]

20 hours ago, DJBOB said:

Yes I’ve thought this for a while. You don’t need stars in every position, you need your Whelan, Chesters, and Adomah’s who aren’t a train wreck when they need to come in. We need our Park Ji Sung to come in and graft wherever he’s played. 

spot on.

[Danny_Villaman84]

Unai Emery is very good manager, but I keep noticing his tactical is always superb and man management too..

but... two big flows....

it is... 

if we go high block we will be exposed by the runner counter-attack once we lose a silly ball which Newcastle has shown and Man UTD has shown this same problem, both same mistakes in pre-season and still this happened... i thought he learn the mistake, which not. unfortunate i think we don't have key player like pau or konsa in centre half, also kamara will might stop this happened.. 

also if team sit back like sheffield we need find plan b (more creative and skill, quick think plus high compose player) which we don't have enough - buendia only one i can think  who player able do it might need do zanola at middle rather wide.. we need like 3 creative attack player ..  other player ramsey is good but he is out of form yet can see his talent and skill, technique still there yet not match fit and his form not has returned... so we have patient with him as he is back from seriously injury. 

diaby is very fast player but i think he suit like fast dash long ground direct in wide he is poor at into crowd of defender which we need find, that why bailey gain good form as he able do this which i suspire with him this season.

might play ramsey behind striker or with watkins might helpfully .. as he usually player left wide midfielder to make square in midfield to extra man with other side.

yeh i still a believer and trust in him also jan transfer we able fix or solve the problem hope he get a players early like 1st jan 3-4 players join us. 

in this order proirty;

RB - top proirty sign is our first choice for a right back; so konsa can back centre half which he best in there compare to carlos and he (carlos) good back up 
DM - take rotate with kamara as we struggle without him Iroegbunam is future but we need ready make as i not comfortable with L.Dendoncker
ST - forward first choice to push watkins or rotate as i don't think duran is good enough..
AM - ACM creative player in behind striker or centre midfield for against team low block (Sheffield etc)
RF-W - right feet fast winger so we can focus on one side ie bailey on our right; so we need find player so can play on left side; - which right feet cut in so so we able put McGinn in right (like our ramsey in left) to target the opponent weak right back as we has a target on weak left back which bailey do at the moment we don't have left side (target opponent right back)
GK - back up goalkeeper 

once emery has these players that we might see better result and good rotate, help busy schedules to take less impact tired player.

[switters]

2 hours ago, Danny_Villaman84 said:

also if team sit back like sheffield we need find plan b (more creative and skill, quick think plus high compose player) which we don't have enough - buendia only one i can think  who player able do it might need do zanola at middle rather wide.. we need like 3 creative attack player ..  other player ramsey is good but he is out of form yet can see his talent and skill, technique still there yet not match fit and his form not has returned... so we have patient with him as he is back from seriously injury. 

 

Tielemans is also in this category and was missed in the last two.

[TomC]

On 26/12/2023 at 19:07, DJBOB said:

Our inability to stay composed is part personnel, part tactical (wrong players in wrong positions), and part Unai dogmatism.

I don't think of Unai as dogmatic at all. Quite to the contrary, it's well-known that he has changed formations many times over the course of his career.

I think it's more personnel...Dendoncker just can't play the double pivot the way we need it played given his passing limitations. Unai may have been slow to recognize that about him, but I wouldn't call that dogmatism.

 

[smokingzen]

2 hours ago, switters said:

Tielemans is also in this category and was missed in the last two.

Don't forget Coutinho 

In all seriousness though, IMO the 3 best players we have for speed of thought and quick one touch football that can break through low blocks are Coutinho, Buendia and Tielemens. Coutinho is by far the best with his speed, vision and execution, but obviously is not here anymore and doesn't have the other physical attributes that are needed for the PL. Buendia is obviously injured, but again his ability to quickly move the ball was really important to us last year, and why despite maybe losing the ball more than he should, Emery thought he was a big miss for us this season. Tielemens was also out for our last game, but he's been starting to get up to pace recently and his quick 1 touch passing has been key for a few goals we've had recently, either as a direct assist or in the prior build up play.

So we have 3 players that excel in that capability, but none were available for Sheffield Utd. I think if we would have been able to bring those 3 on in that match, or one or a combination of, we'd have won.

Now of course you can't keep a player like Coutinho around taking high wages and a place in the squad just for the odd super sub appearance. But a player of that calibre is what we need. Buendia will be back next season, and Tielemans in a couple of weeks. I think the latter 2 will make a good pairing for those type of games next season if they can get on the same wavelength.

Edited December 29, 2023 by smokingzen

[Danny_Villaman84]

5 hours ago, switters said:

Tielemans is also in this category and was missed in the last two.

yeh him as well... 

[villan95]

We really need to start defending better. The goals today were basic stuff, a set piece and then a long ball flicked on from a goal kick. You really shouldn't be conceding within 2/3? touches from a goal kick at the top level.

[IrishVilla10]

Needs to be a point in games where we stop trying to play through the middle of teams with 11 men behind the ball, or 10 yesterday. Morenos in miles of space and we’re passing it between centre backs, then bailey gets the ball out wide and creates the chance which wins us the game. 

[Tomaszk]

1 hour ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Needs to be a point in games where we stop trying to play through the middle of teams with 11 men behind the ball, or 10 yesterday. Morenos in miles of space and we’re passing it between centre backs, then bailey gets the ball out wide and creates the chance which wins us the game. 

Really strange that. Emery clearly doesn't want full backs carrying it down to the byline very often. They all avoid it.

Sheff U was the most frustrating example. After 70 mins of nothing, you'd have thought he'd give Cash or whoever a shout and say ok, try something different if you see some space wide.

Nope. Same thing over and over driving into the stodge in the middle.

They'll be a reason. Unai knows best. No question about it.

I think having 6/7 days between games again will allow him more prep time and more time to refine his ideas for certain situations.

[Sulberto21]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

Really strange that. Emery clearly doesn't want full backs carrying it down to the byline very often. They all avoid it.

Sheff U was the most frustrating example. After 70 mins of nothing, you'd have thought he'd give Cash or whoever a shout and say ok, try something different if you see some space wide.

Nope. Same thing over and over driving into the stodge in the middle.

They'll be a reason. Unai knows best. No question about it.

I think having 6/7 days between games again will allow him more prep time and more time to refine his ideas for certain situations.

We tried the fb overlap on 4 occasions in that game and every time we caused panic in their defence. 

It’s all we should have carried on to do as you know it creates space in the middle but we didn’t and well meh. 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, IrishVilla10 said:

Needs to be a point in games where we stop trying to play through the middle of teams with 11 men behind the ball, or 10 yesterday. Morenos in miles of space and we’re passing it between centre backs, then bailey gets the ball out wide and creates the chance which wins us the game. 

Rodri who as you know, is a CDM....went through the middle of them yesterday, to score a neat goal....but they move the ball around quickly, to cause confusion, and it moves opponents around....slow play, allows low block teams, organisational time.

Against Sheff utd, we moved the ball too slow.

There are many ways to address a low block, but we didn't adapt any, we didn't against Mostar either....Its not a criticism, because our league position would render that foolish....but I do think some of our play, in previous games, not just ones we have lost or drawn..will have Unai's brain working overtime.

When he said he has only done 10% of his planned work....he wasn't joking.

Edited December 31, 2023 by TRO

[cheltenham_villa]

On 29/12/2023 at 17:30, TomC said:

I don't think of Unai as dogmatic at all. Quite to the contrary, it's well-known that he has changed formations many times over the course of his career.

I think it's more personnel...Dendoncker just can't play the double pivot the way we need it played given his passing limitations. Unai may have been slow to recognize that about him, but I wouldn't call that dogmatism.

 

I dont think Unai is slow to recognise that, I just don't think he has a choice. Dendonker gets a very limited amount of minutes, I've no doubt we will see a replacement in Jan or the summer but you can't fix everything at once. 

[foreveryoung]

I'm hoping after the break we get some of our pace back. We have played our best football at pace, Man City got destroyed and could hardly touch us. 

[GeordieVillan]

I have come to terms with the fact that we are going to play this high line no matter, and we will concede some chances (and probably goals) in every game we play, even against a lower placed team and/or 10 men as we did yesterday. It’s uncomfortable viewing at times, but it’s better than watching us sit back and be under pressure for the whole game and just trying to play on the counter attack.

As long as we are creating enough at the other end and generally outscoring the opposition, it’s acceptable. Again, like yesterday. We may have got lucky with the pen, but the system allows us to get players forward and create all those chances which we missed.

Those who are calling a for a low block at times or a more pragmatic approach, look at the season we are having and where are in the table. It’s amazing, and the high line is one of the main reasons for it.

Yes we will have bad results, but again - as long as the good results outweigh it, then it’s acceptable.

We have been a club that has played “back-foot” football for years, and it’s nice that we finally have a manager that wants us to try win every game, even if it does go wrong sometimes.

If we can get Torres and Kamara back in, and strengthen and right back, it will give us a much more solid base to the high line for the remainder of the season.

[TomC]

6 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Really strange that. Emery clearly doesn't want full backs carrying it down to the byline very often. They all avoid it.

I'm not sure that I agree with this. I agree that we aren't doing it, but I'm not sure that Unai wants it that way, at least on the left. Moreno did it a lot last year and was probably bought to do just that since Digne tends to cross more from deep. But Moreno hasn't played much this year and is still looking a little rusty when he does.

On the right, when we play the asymmetrical formation, it's the job of the wide forward (whether Bailey or Diaby) to get to the byline, not the right back. In that case, you're right that Unai doesn't want the right FB going there. Sometimes we don't play that way and Cash gets ordered to go forward, but it's not all the time.

 

 

[DJBOB]

I think something I’d want to see is Diaby playing as the left #10 of Watkins when we’re against the deep block. When he and Bailey were together, they both tended to cut in and consequently were right on top of each other. 
 
Watkins tends to drift in the left channel in the build up but in the final third, I’d like to see Diaby to the left of Watkins to drag their markers to the byline for a cutback instead. 
 
It would make a sometimes confusing transitional defense but we usually have enough players back for Watkins and Diaby to reset. 

[TRO]

On 29/12/2023 at 17:30, TomC said:

I don't think of Unai as dogmatic at all. Quite to the contrary, it's well-known that he has changed formations many times over the course of his career.

I think it's more personnel...Dendoncker just can't play the double pivot the way we need it played given his passing limitations. Unai may have been slow to recognize that about him, but I wouldn't call that dogmatism.

 

It might sound controversial, but I don't think John McGinn can either for slightly different reasons.....I think we need another option there, to give Dougie and Boub a rest at times.

The double pivot was enhanced when, Kamara arrived, and dougie's performance was improved......its a role, that has an impact on the rest of the teams performances.....we need cover for it, quality cover.

[TRO]

On 31/12/2023 at 12:29, GeordieVillan said:

I have come to terms with the fact that we are going to play this high line no matter, and we will concede some chances (and probably goals) in every game we play, even against a lower placed team and/or 10 men as we did yesterday. It’s uncomfortable viewing at times, but it’s better than watching us sit back and be under pressure for the whole game and just trying to play on the counter attack.

As long as we are creating enough at the other end and generally outscoring the opposition, it’s acceptable. Again, like yesterday. We may have got lucky with the pen, but the system allows us to get players forward and create all those chances which we missed.

Those who are calling a for a low block at times or a more pragmatic approach, look at the season we are having and where are in the table. It’s amazing, and the high line is one of the main reasons for it.

Yes we will have bad results, but again - as long as the good results outweigh it, then it’s acceptable.

We have been a club that has played “back-foot” football for years, and it’s nice that we finally have a manager that wants us to try win every game, even if it does go wrong sometimes.

If we can get Torres and Kamara back in, and strengthen and right back, it will give us a much more solid base to the high line for the remainder of the season.

I agree.

I am in favour of the highline, but lets look at a few, concerns.

• For the highline to work like clock work, it requires players to be alive to the press....when opponents set out to breach it, it requires our players to close down the kicker, or disrupt the long ball....if we don't do that, we run the risk, of runners getting through....sure we will get to the ball on many occasions, but some very pacy players with scoring nous, will catch us out, as we have seen......to say, we have to score more, is a game of Russian roulette imo....sure it has worked to a degree, so far, but will it continue?
• It also requires us to be better in possession, we lose control of the ball after being tackled, to easily, and too often....we lost the ball 148 times against United, according to one source, its too puny, and lightweight, for whatever reason for it.
• our defensive stats are not great reading, and we need to reduce them somewhat, if we want to dine at the top table.....Top teams do not have questionable defensive records.
• Our offensive work is the best we have had it for years, but if we have a bit of a dry patch, our defensive work, could impact our impressive results.

In conclusion.....We are doing great overall, but in order to convince the sceptics, we do need to be harder to score against.....However, Unai intends to do that, is up to him.

• Finally, while I am ecstatic with our forward play....they do make me feel nervy at times.......I am not a great fan of conceding so easily, after we have worked hard to score.

 

Edited January 1 by TRO

[TRO]

I think Unai is hamstrung to a degree, by the balance of the squad....I think he will address this, this month.

In Watkins, Diaby, Bailey, Tielemans, Luiz, McGinn, ( JJ when back to his true form) Buendia ( back fit) ..we have an array of talent that will spook any opponent....we have scored an unprecedented amount of goals this season, and we all look like scoring at any time in a game.

I am not saying, don't sign another offensive player, its hard to say that, its like saying no more chocolate........but we need some fruit and Veg too.

I think we need some players, who can help with the control side of things, and ones with an appetite, to stop opponents enthusiasm, and put doubt in their minds....it takes certain types to do that...we have the brick layers, a few hod carriers, could help...not literally.

We already have several players in defence, whose better skills are playing out, or raiding down the flanks, nothing wrong with that.....but somebody has to do some ugly work.

I am not proposing we change in any way from what we are doing, but I am suggesting, our technical players, need some help at times, when the going gets a bit rough...I think the squad might need a player of that profile, after all, it took some time to get Kamara, that was slow coming.

We are so close, to becoming a complete team, we have the sharp edge, lets get the durable edge too, to go with it.

Edited January 1 by TRO

[Made In Aston]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am not saying, don't sign another offensive player,

Any player who tells the opposition to fu*k off is a great signing in my book. The more the better! Mocking the disabled is where I draw the line though. 

Edited January 1 by Made In Aston