a-k Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 Part of me thinks Gerrard wanted to try Ings alone up front but dropped Ollie completely, playing it off as covid, to avoid the "oh he's chosen Ings over Watkins" if he put Ollie on the bench 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, nick76 said: I wonder if Ollie would scored that goal with the way he’s playing this season myself. I agree with you about what he would’ve tried to do. Ings is such a quality finisher he made it look easy. In an identical situation vs Chelsea last week he wasn't such a quality finisher. So..... there's that. It's swings and roundabouts isn't it. Watkins works hard, battles with defenders, scores and is not as reliant on "quality" service. Without the service Ings offers, well, not much. The truth is, without expensive quality players on the pitch the forwards won't be getting much quality service. Watkins works better with the team we've got now and is the better option for me. You need to channel evening around Ings to get value out of him. Maybe that's where the manager want's to go. We'll see I guess. Edited January 2, 2022 by jimmygreaves 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouUnastanFren Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 Just now, a-k said: Part of me thinks Gerrard wanted to try Ings alone up front but dropped Ollie completely, playing it off as covid, to avoid the "oh he's chosen Ings over Watkins" if he put Ollie on the bench All of me thinks Gerrard is a strong enough character to not intentionally weaken the squad for the sake of avoiding a small amount of scrutiny in his decision making. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 Just now, jimmygreaves said: In an identical situation vs Chelsea last week he wasn't such a quality finisher. So..... there's that. So what you are saying is that strikers don’t score every chance they get? Do other people know about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmygreaves Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 19 minutes ago, nick76 said: So what you are saying is that strikers don’t score every chance they get? Do other people know about this? So what you're saying is........ Christ! You understand this argument stands for Watkins too? I know it's an internet forum but there is room for pragmatism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 13 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said: So what you're saying is........ Christ! You understand this argument stands for Watkins too? Yes, did I say it didn’t? Did I say Watkins couldn’t have scored that goal? My point is that Ings is more likely to score that goal because he is the better finisher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 40 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said: In an identical situation vs Chelsea last week he wasn't such a quality finisher. So..... there's that. It's swings and roundabouts isn't it. Watkins works hard, battles with defenders, scores and is not as reliant on "quality" service. Without the service Ings offers, well, not much. The truth is, without expensive quality players on the pitch the forwards won't be getting much quality service. Watkins works better with the team we've got now and is the better option for me. You need to channel evening around Ings to get value out of him. Maybe that's where the manager want's to go. We'll see I guess. Ings is more likely to score a chance than Ollie Ings works hard and is a great presser and I was informed yesterday on this forum that Ings has better pressing stats this season than Ollie. Although I was told “on the eye” it didn’t feel that way…not sure I understand that 43 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said: The truth is, without expensive quality players on the pitch the forwards won't be getting much quality service. Ok, so Ollie and Ings are in the same position and their goal and assist ratio show that 44 minutes ago, jimmygreaves said: Watkins works better with the team we've got now I don’t agree with that, I think it’s 50/50 depending on opposition and players around them. I think with Ollie’s poor form, I’d be sticking with Ings for a bit especially as we aren’t creating much so we need to be clinical on the chances we do have which points to Ings over Ollie. I don’t think there is much between Ollie and Ings. Ollie is more mobile, Ings is a better finisher. Both are good pressers, Ollie is better holding the ball up but Ings is better technically and intricate play with others. Ings deserves to hold onto the shirt after today imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 8 minutes ago, nick76 said: Yes, did I say it didn’t? Did I say Watkins couldn’t have scored that goal? My point is that Ings is more likely to score that goal because he is the better finisher. I don’t think you’ll find a single argument that Ings is a better finisher, you certainly won’t from me mate. But I do think we miss something when Ollie isn’t playing. As an example we lacked intensity today, and sometimes that can be introduced into a game by a cracking tackle, someone busting a gut to win the ball back, Ollie gives us that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, av1 said: I don’t think you’ll find a single argument that Ings is a better finisher, you certainly won’t from me mate. But I do think we miss something when Ollie isn’t playing. As an example we lacked intensity today, and sometimes that can be introduced into a game by a cracking tackle, someone busting a gut to win the ball back, Ollie gives us that. Last season I would 100% agree mate but he’s short in that area this season, it has been incredibly frustrating most of time this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 Watkins scored sixteen league goals last season, Ings has only bettered that once in six seasons he's played in the premier league, and has only bettered it twice at any level in his whole career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 3 minutes ago, useless said: Watkins scored sixteen league goals last season, Ings has only bettered that once in six seasons he's played in the premier league, and has only bettered it twice at any level in his whole career. Yes but he’s only managed one season with 30+ games in 6 that happened to be the season he scored 22 goals 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) *wrong thread Edited January 2, 2022 by DCJonah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 When you compare Watkins and Ings strike rates at both Premier League and Chamionship level they're quite similar. Ings 154 premier league appearances 59 goals 15 assists / 87 Championship appearances 27 goals 9 assists Watkins 53 premier league appearance 19 goals 8 assists / 132 championship appearances 43 goals 17 assists Both pretty impressive records, point being that I don't think we can have this narrative that Watkins isn't a good finisher, his strike rate is pretty similar to Ings' so then it becomes a question of who has the better all round game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest av1 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 People have rightly said that to date, Ollie and Ings playing together hasn’t worked, one thing that has confused me though is how it’s been set up. When we have tried to play them together we’ve seen Ings as the spearhead with Ollie dropping off or moving wide, I think the opposite would be the way to go. Ollie is a CF nothing else for me, whereas I think Ings could play in that 10 postion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) Ings has had four seasons where he's played thirty plus league games, last season he was one game shy of playing thirty games. Not saying that Ings is a bad player, just that Watkins is better, and it's not even as if his goal scoring record is much worse if worse at all. Edited January 2, 2022 by useless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, useless said: When you compare Watkins and Ings strike rates at both Premier League and Chamionship level they're quite similar. Ings 154 premier league appearances 59 goals 15 assists / 87 Championship appearances 27 goals 9 assists Watkins 53 premier league appearance 19 goals 8 assists / 132 championship appearances 43 goals 17 assists Both pretty impressive records, point being that I don't think we can have this narrative that Watkins isn't a good finisher, his strike rate is pretty similar to Ings' so then it becomes a question of who has the better all round game. Ings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a-k Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 (edited) Ollie has an 8 in 28 record in the PL without Grealish vs 11 in 25 in the PL with Grealish Edited January 2, 2022 by a-k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 Ings is the closet you will get to a modern day Darren Bent, main difference he works harder, but ultimately he's like an old fahsioned 'fox in the box' striker. There's a reason that despite having a very goal scoring record in terms of goals to appearance ratio, he's spent his career at clubs like Burnley, Southampton, not being able to get into the Liverpool team, and then signing for us as a back up striker, and that's because his all round game isn't great, he doesn't offer much unless he's scoring goals. Which is fine, he's a good weapon to have to come off the bench. Watkins is the opposite, scores goals and has a very good all round game, he's the best striker we've had in a long time, only Benteke comes close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 1 minute ago, useless said: Ings has had four seasons where he's played thirty plus league games, last season he was one game shy of playing thirty games. 20/21 29 appearances and 12 goals 19/20 38 appearances ,22 goals 18/19 24 appearances 7goals 17/18 8 appearances 1 goal 15/16 6 appearances 1 goal He did his cruciate and had knee surgery along with hamstring injurys and plenty more niggles 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted January 2, 2022 Share Posted January 2, 2022 26 minutes ago, useless said: Watkins scored sixteen league goals last season, Ings has only bettered that once in six seasons he's played in the premier league, and has only bettered it twice at any level in his whole career. 14 league goals. In the Premier League Ings has only played more than 30 games twice. I’m his first season with Burnley he scored 11 and the last time he played 38 he scored 22. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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