Political Ramifications of Covid-19 Pandemic

[bickster]

7 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

her , 5.7 million people fail to declare earnings on   “side hustles” ,

These stats are made up aren't they? Are you seriously suggesting 15% of the working population has both a side hustle and fails to pay tax on it? That’s 1 in 7 roughly 
 

I very much doubt that percentage of the working population even has a “side hustle”

[Seat68]

My “side hustle” is cutting the front hedge. My wife gives neither praise or payment for this. In kind or monetary.  
 

[OutByEaster?]

14 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

My “side hustle” is cutting the front hedge. My wife gives neither praise or payment for this. In kind or monetary.  

"Front hedge"?

 

[tonyh29]

2 hours ago, bickster said:

These stats are made up aren't they? Are you seriously suggesting 15% of the working population has both a side hustle and fails to pay tax on it? That’s 1 in 7 roughly 
 

I very much doubt that percentage of the working population even has a “side hustle”

On point one it might be the way I Interpreted being “correctly taxed “ as meaning fails to pay tax  but it claims 5.7 m people ... 

Of the 66.57 million people residing in the UK, 5.7 million fail to declare earnings made through what have become known as “side hustles” – 

 

on point 2 , it suggests the figure is higher 

Here

 1 in 4 Brits are running at least one business project alongside their full-time job, Henley Business School research reveals - and this is predicted to rise significantly by 2030

 

Henleys data suggests you owe OBE a like

[blandy]

11 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

@blandy I can't really tell if your post is meant to be a reply to mine?

Anyway:

Nobody is saying that tax rises are universally popular, and nobody is saying that they are particularly popular with people they apply to. Nevertheless, tax rises do happen. The share of tax take-GDP has increased since 2010, not decreased.

We don't live in California or Switzerland or one of those weird places where tax rises need to get past a referendum. If the Treasury truly want a tax rise, the Chancellor has to get through a few uncomfortable days of media pressure and bad headlines, but it's not fundamentally impossible.

There's a fairly large element of catastrophising here.

It was a post replying to a specific point you made, that the only thing preventing Tax rises was political will. I was trying, perhaps badly to say that in my view that's a bit of a simplification.

So for example there's a question of why a gov't would want to put taxes up. Is it because they wish to pull in more revenue, or is it because they wish to discourage a particular product or activity? or is it because they wish to re-balance things in the interests of"fairness". and so on. And then there's the question of  "if we raise the tax on petrol, will that achieve our aim of discouraging fossil fuel consumption and by how much" or would it be better to take all the existing tax revenue from petrol and throw it all at electric car subsidies, or would it be better to increase the tax on cars and decrease it in bikes....or is it bettter to tax aviation more highly....

And when all that's decided, there's the unintended consequences, the accountants finding ways to avoid, people changing behaviour in ways not anticipated and of course electoral consequences. Fuel Tanker blockades, what 15 years ago probably still terrify government today.

So in essence, I was trying to say that expertise and clear thinking and focused objectives and detailed understanding etc. are also things which matter greatly (and which I'm less than convinced this particular government has). Add to that that this Gov't is basically a bunch of grifters and ideologues, utterly lacking in integrity and just doing whatever in the moment to wing it, and we've got a bit of a problem. So yes political will matters hugely, but political capability and expertise also matter.

Finally, and not gnerally but on this current situation, I think taxes will have to change - I mean the whole system is unfair/unbalanced. We know that large multi-nationals in particular "get away" with paying almost no tax anywhere. The likes of Amazon etc. = these need to be the focus of international co-operation, and actiities need to be taxed at the location of the buyer, not the sales office in Low tax haven. Taxes need to be re-focused towards environmentally damaging activities and towards predatory practices.

[bickster]

11 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

On point one it might be the way I Interpreted being “correctly taxed “ as meaning fails to pay tax  but it claims 5.7 m people ... 

 

 

 

on point 2 , it suggests the figure is higher 

Here

 

 

 

Henleys data suggests you owe OBE a like

Henly's data is arse biscuits then. Absolutely no way 1 in 7 of the working age population have a side hustle that avoids tax.

Biggest side hustle in the uk, has to be Uber. As soon as you get a PHV Licene HMRC are informed, all Uber fares are paid through the bank so are fully inspectable by HMRC, that rules all of those out for starters

Think about your friends, how many of them do indeed have a side hustle, regardless of whether they pay tax on it? I'll wager not that many because of all the people I know, there's about 3 (and yes Tone I know considerably more than 21 people )

That figure is absolutely plucked out of thin air

[HanoiVillan]

12 minutes ago, blandy said:

It was a post replying to a specific point you made, that the only thing preventing Tax rises was political will. I was trying, perhaps badly to say that in my view that's a bit of a simplification.

So for example there's a question of why a gov't would want to put taxes up. Is it because they wish to pull in more revenue, or is it because they wish to discourage a particular product or activity? or is it because they wish to re-balance things in the interests of"fairness". and so on. And then there's the question of  "if we raise the tax on petrol, will that achieve our aim of discouraging fossil fuel consumption and by how much" or would it be better to take all the existing tax revenue from petrol and throw it all at electric car subsidies, or would it be better to increase the tax on cars and decrease it in bikes....or is it bettter to tax aviation more highly....

I think you have somewhat misunderstood what I meant by 'political will', by which I didn't mean 'the only thing stopping politicians is that they are not brave enough' but 'for various reasons (of which a lack of bravery and fear of media and public opinion is one, but so are many others like ideological disagreement, attempting to provoke stimulus, assessments of 'effectiveness' and others) politicians have not desired to implement tax rises'. I don't think we are actually disagreeing here.

[tonyh29]

24 minutes ago, bickster said:

Henly's data is arse biscuits then. Absolutely no way 1 in 7 of the working age population have a side hustle that avoids tax.

Biggest side hustle in the uk, has to be Uber. As soon as you get a PHV Licene HMRC are informed, all Uber fares are paid through the bank so are fully inspectable by HMRC, that rules all of those out for starters

Think about your friends, how many of them do indeed have a side hustle, regardless of whether they pay tax on it? I'll wager not that many because of all the people I know, there's about 3 (and yes Tone I know considerably more than 21 people )

That figure is absolutely plucked out of thin air

Just to clarify , Henley didn’t mention tax avoidance on their study ....but you have their website I’m sure they would love to hear your opinion

you’re kinda asking the wrong person because we pay people incentive money each year for taking part in surveys , we point out that they should declare it to HMRC (disclaimer  I have no way of knowing if they are exceeding the £1000 allowance  ) but if you asked me a gut feel , I’d say none of them ever declare it  .. 

 

[bickster]

4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Just to clarify , Henley didn’t mention tax avoidance on their study ....

 

10 hours ago, tonyh29 said:

, 5.7 million people fail to declare earnings on   “side hustles” , estimated to be in the region of £23bn a year

But you did

[tonyh29]

10 minutes ago, bickster said:

 

But you did

The clue is in the link you've quoted , that takes you to a website that isn’t Henleys

 

[bickster]

56 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

The clue is in the link you've quoted , that takes you to a website that isn’t Henleys

 

Yes to a lawyer with totlly unsubstantiated stats. According to him your average Londer resident earns £9k per year in side hussles

I'd wager that is absolute nonsense

PS. You still said it

[tonyh29]

15 minutes ago, bickster said:

PS. You still said it

That’s true , but we were discussing ( or at least one of us was  ) Henley and what they didn’t say 

2 hours ago, bickster said:

Henly’s  data is arse biscuits then. Absolutely no way 1 in 7 of the working age population have a side hustle that avoids tax.

anyway,  I know what you meant ,I’m just being picky ,  so let’s just agree that I was right  and move on  

[bickster]

1 minute ago, tonyh29 said:

so let’s just agree that I was totally talking crap  and move on  

Agreed

[chrisp65]

...and this is why I don’t currently vote Labour, still pitching for centralised control, even when that currently means opening schools and wedging people back on to overcrowded trains.

 

Be interesting to see what the Labour Health Minister in the Welsh Parliament thinks of her opinions. I shouldn’t imagine she even knows who that is. 

[chrisp65]

 

I think he speaks for all of us, I too am a free, not man a number.

 

[chrisp65]

Turns out bad placard guy is serial weirdo Jeff Wyatt, ex UKIP, Ex Britain First, ex Free Tommy Robinson.

So basically, a prick.

 

 

 

[chrisp65]

Every pandemic has an upside.

 

[chrisp65]

 

 

 

[tonyh29]

Hard to tell from a screen shot of a tweet but a UBI for all households that will give money to 1 million doesn’t seem to be “ for all “ and thus not universal ? 

Few years back we had a thread on UBI I seem to recall ? , as one of the Scandie countries was trialing it ...thread sorta died on its arse for whatever reason , but it’s an interesting concept that might be in the news more and more post virus and the recovery 

[chrisp65]

Just now, tonyh29 said:

Hard to tell from a screen shot of a tweet but a UBI for all households that will give money to 1 million doesn’t seem to be “ for all “ and thus not universal ? 

Few years back we had a thread on UBI I seem to recall ? , as one of the Scandie countries was trialing it ...thread sorta died on its arse for whatever reason , but it’s an interesting concept that might be in the news more and more post virus and the recovery 

I’ve only speed read it, but I thought the same thing, not sure you can have selected universal income.

But I haven’t looked at the detail, and even then I’d want a better source than a BBC tweet.