Racism Part two

[Rustibrooks]

I know with the war it’s a very sensitive subject but it’s been on my mind for a while now. How is it that in the middle of a war that Ukraine can still find the time to be racist?

I was just browsing and I’ve seen that apparently an African peace delegation have been trying to strike a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia. A Ukrainian advisor to Zelenskyy has said that they rejected the offering which is fair enough but then went on to add that the African peace delegation only came to Europe to ask for food and have used the usual stereotypes when referring to anything to do with Africa.

Edited June 26, 2023 by Rustibrooks

[bickster]

25 minutes ago, Rustibrooks said:

I know with the war it’s a very sensitive subject but it’s been on my mind for a while now. How is it that in the middle of a war that Ukraine can still find the time to be racist?

I was just browsing and I’ve seen that apparently an African peace delegation have been trying to strike a peace deal between Ukraine and Russia. A Ukrainian advisor to Zelenskyy has said that they rejected the offering which is fair enough but then went on to add that the African peace delegation only came to Europe to beg for food and have used the usual stereotypes when referring to anything to do with Africa.

Is there a link to this story?

[Rustibrooks]

26 minutes ago, bickster said:

Is there a link to this story?

https://www.iol.co.za/the-star/news/ukraine-advisor-rejects-africas-involvement-in-european-affairs-096a9236-86a1-493c-91f0-22f1711884cd

 

Quote

"The African delegation had no goal of settling the conflict or finding a solution. Obviously, this is not their task. It is not at their level or competency. They just want to be on the misinformation agenda and resolve their own issues, like the increasing resources they receive from Russia, including food supplies," he said.

 

The 'beg' part was taken from a page which I’ve realised now that they added from looking at this article but I can see where it can still look distasteful

[tomav84]

14 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

I quite clearly said there was no excuse for what he said. My point being is his actions and support and promotion of black players in the game suggests he was far from being a racist. 

Just gonna chuck this one out there too:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2402041/amp/Celebrity-Big-Brother-2013-Ron-Atkinson-warned-race-row-house.html

Quote

Ron Atkinson entered the Celebrity Big Brother house and immediately walked into another race row.

 

[Davkaus]

1 hour ago, tomav84 said:

Just gonna chuck this one out there too:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2402041/amp/Celebrity-Big-Brother-2013-Ron-Atkinson-warned-race-row-house.html

 

He's never going to win the race row by walking, get a bloody boat mate.

[Follyfoot]

1 hour ago, tomav84 said:

Just gonna chuck this one out there too:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2402041/amp/Celebrity-Big-Brother-2013-Ron-Atkinson-warned-race-row-house.html

 

Really, an ill informed religious 'gag' from an old man who clearly does not engage his brain before his mouth, idiotic maybe but deliberately racist, nah.  If Jimmy Carr had said it people would call it risky stand up., still shite mind and not funny

Edited June 26, 2023 by Follyfoot

[Stevo985]

39 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Really, an ill informed religious 'gag' from an old man who clearly does not engage his brain before his mouth, idiotic maybe but deliberately racist, nah.  If Jimmy Carr had said it people would call it risky stand up., still shite mind and not funny

See that one you could excuse as an oversight. A shit joke that someone from a different era didn't realise would be offensive.

You can't say the same about the Desailly comments. Not by a long shot

[Follyfoot]

1 minute ago, Stevo985 said:

See that one you could excuse as an oversight. A shit joke that someone from a different era didn't realise would be offensive.

You can't say the same about the Desailly comments. Not by a long shot

Is anybody saying any different 

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, Follyfoot said:

Is anybody saying any different 

 

16 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

he was far from being a racist. 

 

[bickster]

Just now, Follyfoot said:

Is anybody saying any different 

Much like nobody else said this either

Quote

but deliberately racist, nah.

What has deliberate got to do with anything. Big Ron just can't help himself

[Follyfoot]

38 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

 

 

At least quote me correctly, other than the part that fits you agenda, crap post mate, the exact quote is as below. 

 

I quite clearly said there was no excuse for what he said. My point being is his actions and support and promotion of black players in the game suggests he was far from being a racist. 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Follyfoot

[tomav84]

53 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Really, an ill informed religious 'gag' from an old man who clearly does not engage his brain before his mouth, idiotic maybe but deliberately racist, nah.  If Jimmy Carr had said it people would call it risky stand up., still shite mind and not funny

this argument always winds me up, similar to those defending that old royal family member who was asking the black british woman "where are you really from?"

'old' people have seen a lot of social change through the decades that they've been around and frankly should no better...it's never an argument

he was being deliberately racist...it was the perception of all arabs being terrorists

[Davkaus]

10 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

 

he was being deliberately racist...it was the perception of all arabs being terrorists

I love how he rapidly appears to have essentially clarified "no love, not the irish, no problem with you lot, great bunch of lads. It's the arabs I'm sticking it to" 

[Follyfoot]

5 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

this argument always winds me up, similar to those defending that old royal family member who was asking the black british woman "where are you really from?"

'old' people have seen a lot of social change through the decades that they've been around and frankly should no better...it's never an argument

he was being deliberately racist...it was the perception of all arabs being terrorists

In your opinion, I am am sure plenty on here will agree with you and on the others will not but will not post as such for obvious reasons.

I stand by my comment, a crap ill informed attempt at a gag, the old part is not the driver of my point 

 

[sheepyvillian]

6 hours ago, Davkaus said:

There's got to be a spectrum of racism, right? Using slurs in an abusive way makes you a racist, clear as day, no matter what else you do and say, even if you don't hate people of that race and happily work alongside them. At the same time it doesn't mean you're such a racist you want them all rounded up and shot.

At a 0-10 of racism Ron's probably at a 2-3 for me.

If you're not black, then how would you know what scale it falls under?

[sheepyvillian]

The irony is certainly not lost on me when I see white people trying to decide what's racially offensive and what's not to black people..

As I alluded to in a recent post, the fact this thread exists is proof of the sad state of this issue. The hypocrisy is also widespread. Jim Smith pontificating on the very subject, whose the next guest on the phone? Lee Bowyer, smh.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, Follyfoot said:

At least quote me correctly, other than the part that fits you agenda, crap post mate, the exact quote is as below. 

 

I quite clearly said there was no excuse for what he said. My point being is his actions and support and promotion of black players in the game suggests he was far from being a racist. 

And my point is he's not "far from being a racist" if he used that very deliberate, explicit racist language

Edited June 26, 2023 by Stevo985

[TRO]

7 hours ago, lexicon said:

Are you saying your friend in Saudi is not in a wealthy, privileged position? Is he forced to work there? Or was he born in an impoverished area of Saudi Arabia, facing a system rigged against him where his ethnicity puts him at a serious disadvantage from the day he's born? 

Yes, it's discrimination, but without any of the all important historical and societal context. Can you not see how vastly different this is to blackface or half a stadium chanting 'monkey' at Vinicius Jnr? 

When the dressing up for an historical event, requires a black face......That is entirely different to me ,to claiming racism, for the abhorrent treatment of Vinicius Jnr, in my eyes.

We can all make lots of cases, that offend us, and not all will be shared,by the masses, based on the percieved gravity....In vinicius's case I would have supported him, if had simply walked off the pitch...its was shocking.

back to Monchie............Thats simply my view....others like you, may disagree, thats your prerogative..

as you say, this subject has to be based on a case by case basis, it is quite complex and its hard to make simple statements or references.....but when you get c43% of footballers to be black in the premier league, when that is disproportionate to the population of the country as a whole....it does indicate that we have a far more fair and tolerant outlook, than some folk care to purport....sadly some individuals in the stands ( albeit diminishing) do still resort a vacuous tribal baiting of black players...probably the same/ similar empty headed idiots that offend football managers by firing cabbages at them.

Offensive behaviour seems to hold no bounds and rascism is a very regrettable part of it.....but we must remain accurate in what we deem as offensive, else the argument against offensive behaviour can stumble and the dim wits gain credence and we don't want that.

Edited June 26, 2023 by TRO

[Follyfoot]

15 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

And my point is he's not "far from being a racist" if he said used that very deliberate, explicit racist language

I was making the point that his actions in the game in a very racist era in the development and support of black footballers are in total conflict with his words he used regarding Makélélé. 

 

 

Edited June 26, 2023 by Follyfoot

[Davkaus]

26 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said:

The irony is certainly not lost on me when I see white people trying to decide what's racially offensive and what's not to black people..

As I alluded to in a recent post, the fact this thread exists is proof of the sad state of this issue. The hypocrisy is also widespread. Jim Smith pontificating on the very subject, whose the next guest on the phone? Lee Bowyer, smh.

What's the irony?

Nobody here is trying to make a decision for black people, it's just a bunch of people having a discussion. I think it's rather close-minded to think that people can't can't consider and debate what is offensive to other people. Do our conclusions outweigh other people's lived experiences? Should we tell black people "You think this is offensive, but actually, let me set you straight..."? Well no, probably not. But I think attempting to shut discussion down is a bit stupid. Would you feel better if we tagged in a black person to tell us all what to think? 

Of course we'd probably need a referendum, because to the best of my knowledge, there isn't an emperor of black people that makes all of their decisions. 

I think a bunch of white blokes attempting to put themselves in the shoes of others and consider context and impact of discrimination very rarely targeted at ourselves (at least over here) is probably a good thing.