Thug Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 9 minutes ago, Awol said: Saudis have told their nationals to evacuate Lebanon immediately. This is very, very bad news. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 4 hours ago, momo said: Give away your own country to settlers. Some white people decided to take a country away from its indigenous people and give it to some other white people. Did the people of Palestine vote? So it's not lawful. Who’s the indigenous people? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) One thing I can say is the amount of disinformation and/or cloudy information swirling around the internet is simply unprecedented. Like I can't tell if this was actually released by the IDF (some random account saying it doesn't make it so). But if it was it's morbidly hilarious that they did. We're meant to believe that some random Hamas fellas were casually laying out everything to each other over the phone in these weird accents. Who is this for? Edited October 18, 2023 by Keyblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Who’s the indigenous people? The Europeans that moved there obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 17 minutes ago, Thug said: 20 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Who’s the indigenous people? The Europeans that moved there obviously. People who are descended from ancient Hebrews and other Semitic tribes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Just now, fruitvilla said: People who are descended from ancient Hebrews and other Semitic tribes. That’s what I said. I’ve descended from Abraham too. So I’m gonna go there after the bombing stops and nab myself a phat pad in Gaza. By the way, the people that live there, you know, the non-indigenous ones, they are descended from those same tribes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: People who are descended from ancient Hebrews and other Semitic tribes. In fact, I’m sure I’m descended from Adam, I might go get myself a nice yard in South Africa too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osmark86 Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 23 minutes ago, Keyblade said: One thing I can say is the amount of disinformation and/or cloudy information swirling around the internet is simply unprecedented. Like I can't tell if this was actually released by the IDF (some random account saying it doesn't make it so). But if it was it's morbidly hilarious that they did. We're meant to believe that some random Hamas fellas were casually laying out everything to each other over the phone in these weird accents. Who is this for? With how easy it is to fake videos/audio/images and mass distribute them these days it's just a mess. AI age is going to be tough on humanity most likely. I could make something like this myself if I wanted to. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, Thug said: they are descended from those same tribes. That is what I said. We all have a common ancestor somewhere. Rights of residence is an interesting philosophical concept. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, Thug said: I might go get myself a nice yard in South Africa too. Been there, done that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermon Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 4 hours ago, Thug said: In 10 years time you’ll have the new president of America saying how wonderful the Israelis are.. look how they took this land full of rubble and turned it into one of the greatest skylines on the planet. And we’ll all go about our business like nothing ever happened. Sadly this is true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, fruitvilla said: Been there, done that too. You know, do you know who we’re there before the Jewish people? The Canaanites 4000 years ago. Now take a look at this: https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(17)30276-8 Quote We show that present-day Lebanese derive most of their ancestry from a Canaanite-related population, which therefore implies substantial genetic continuity in the Levant since at least the Bronze Age. In addition, we find Eurasian ancestry in the Lebanese not present in Bronze Age or earlier Levantines. We estimate that this Eurasian ancestry arrived in the Levant around 3,750–2,170 years ago during a period of successive conquests by distant populations. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/dna-from-biblical-canaanites-lives-modern-arabs-jews Quote Marc Haber, a geneticist at the Wellcome Trust’s Sanger Institute in Hinxton, United Kingdom, co-led a 2017 study of five Canaanite individuals from the coastal town of Sidon. The results showed that modern Lebanese can trace more than 90 percent of their genetic ancestry to Canaanites. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/dna-from-biblical-canaanites-lives-modern-arabs-jews Quote The genetic profile of Palestinians has, for the first time, been studied by using human leukocyte antigen (HLA) gene variability and haplotypes. The comparison with other Mediterranean populations by using neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses reveal that Palestinians are genetically very close to Jews and other Middle East populations, including Turks (Anatolians), Lebanese, Egyptians, Armenians, and Iranians. Archaeologic and genetic data support that both Jews and Palestinians came from the ancient Canaanites, who extensively mixed with Egyptians, Mesopotamian, and Anatolian peoples in ancient times. Thus, Palestinian-Jewish rivalry is based in cultural and religious, but not in genetic, differences. The relatively close relatedness of both Jews and Palestinians to western Mediterranean populations reflects the continuous circum-Mediterranean cultural and gene flow that have occurred in prehistoric and historic times. This flow overtly contradicts the demic diffusion model of western Mediterranean populations substitution by agriculturalists coming from the Middle East in the Mesolithic-Neolithic transition. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/#:~:text=Archaeologic and genetic data support,but not in genetic%2C differences. Genetics suggests that the Arabs and the Jews are from the same descendants. How European descendants of the same people can have the ‘right’ to displace others with the same claim is beyond absurd. Edited October 18, 2023 by Thug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted October 18, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 hour ago, Keyblade said: One thing I can say is the amount of disinformation and/or cloudy information swirling around the internet is simply unprecedented. Like I can't tell if this was actually released by the IDF (some random account saying it doesn't make it so). But if it was it's morbidly hilarious that they did. We're meant to believe that some random Hamas fellas were casually laying out everything to each other over the phone in these weird accents. Who is this for? They sound more casual than you might expect, but what makes you think the accents are weird? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 15 minutes ago, Thug said: so… the Palestinians and the Jews should both move out, and let the Lebanese and Iranians move in. As THEY are apparently the indigenous population. Exactly how absurd does that sound? It is absurd ... but you appear to be arguing for this sort of thing. People who have or do not have 'rights' to a particular bit of land. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, fruitvilla said: It is absurd ... but you appear to be arguing for this sort of thing. People who have or do not have 'rights' to a particular bit of land. I’m not arguing that at all. why do u say that? Quote a. The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samaria will not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty. b. A plan which relinquishes parts of western Eretz Israel, undermines our right to the country, unavoidably leads to the establishment of a "Palestinian State," jeopardizes the security of the Jewish population, endangers the existence of the State of Israel. and frustrates any prospect of peace. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party This is the Likud party’s ideology. They consider the Palestinians ’foreign’ Edited October 18, 2023 by Thug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, Thug said: I’m not arguing that at all. Why do u say that? Do you believe people have rights to own land? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KentVillan Posted October 18, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 18, 2023 @Thugthe ethnic origins of the Jewish population of Israel are much more complex than you seem to realise. Certainly not all Europeans, and the Mizrahi Jews have lived there as long as the Palestinians. Plus Zionist migrations started over a century ago, and we now have most of the population of Israel having been born there, so unless you’re now arguing that a black British person born in London doesn’t have a right to be here, I’m not sure what your point is. The historical rights and wrongs of the creation of Israel are something that can’t be reversed. The only relevant question is how we arrive at a solution which respects the rights of all the peoples of the region. That’s not very straightforward at all as long as there are influential Israelis who just want to bomb the Palestinians out of existence, and influential Palestinians who’d be keen on doing the same to Israel. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 20 minutes ago, Thug said: I’m not arguing that at all. why do u say that? https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party This is the Likud party’s ideology. They consider the Palestinians ’foreign’ Likud’s platform is as obscene as Hamas platform, without the outright murder of the other part written down in it. Your point being? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, KentVillan said: which respects the rights of all the peoples of the region. I agree with your post above ... a minor quibble is the rights bit. I get what you are driving at ... but really what we are driving at is the wants and perhaps the needs of the people involved. What I don't get from a Hamas point of view, Israel has routinely responded to Hamas's stupid incursions in the past with what for me is disproportionate force. What did they expect this time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, KentVillan said: @Thugthe ethnic origins of the Jewish population of Israel are much more complex than you seem to realise. Certainly not all Europeans, and the Mizrahi Jews have lived there as long as the Palestinians. Plus Zionist migrations started over a century ago, and we now have most of the population of Israel having been born there, so unless you’re now arguing that a black British person born in London doesn’t have a right to be here, I’m not sure what your point is. The historical rights and wrongs of the creation of Israel are something that can’t be reversed. The only relevant question is how we arrive at a solution which respects the rights of all the peoples of the region. That’s not very straightforward at all as long as there are influential Israelis who just want to bomb the Palestinians out of existence, and influential Palestinians who’d be keen on doing the same to Israel. It is also complex on another level, in that Israel is by its own definition a Jewish state. That makes it problematic for things like cultural and demographic change that naturally occur over time in a society. They essentially have an apartheid system in place to ensure that the Jewish population remains the one in control, so that the country remains a Jewish ‘sanctuary’. If they allowed full democracy and voting rights to any and all who wished to live there the Jewish population would quickly become a minority in Israel, as they are in most countries. It is a very problematic situation to find a workable solution to. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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