Chindie Posted October 18, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 18, 2023 I'm firmly on the side of Palestine in this obviously. I'd lean towards the hospital being a rocket misfire accident. The damage just isn't there for a true strike by a high-ex missile/bomb. There are questions around the Israeli response - a state propagandist appears to have claimed responsibility and then hastily revised it, for instance - but the evidence isn't there for it to be an Israeli strike. I don't buy arguments that they wouldn't do it - Israel will do whatever if it feels it can kill some opponents and they've never had a problem with collateral damage. But this just doesn't look like their work - it's more like what you'd expect from a firebomb, which would align with damage from a midlaunch missile failure having it's fuel explode and hitting a car park. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 17 minutes ago, Rustibrooks said: I’ve also seen some say that the JDAM is capable of being detonated before it hits the surface so it doesn’t necessarily need to make impact. (I don’t actually have a clue just relaying what I’ve been told/seen) Somone is pulling your chain, mate. JDAM just refers to the kit attached to a dumb bomb that steers it to target once it’s released from an aircraft. You don’t get barometric fusing on those bombs, but even if you did, the car park in question would look very different - with pieces of all those cars embedded in the surrounding buildings. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, Awol said: Apologise for continuing to correct things that aren’t true, but the Israelis are not indiscriminately bombing Gaza. They are bombing specific targets related to Hamas military infrastructure. If Israel was simply trying to kill Palestinians with airstrikes it could do so very rapidly on a massive scale. Instead, they give general warnings to the population to move from a specific area before it is struck, including the use of geofenced text messages to every mobile device. If the target is a building with civilian dwellings inside they also do roof knocking (a technique invented by the IAF in Gaza) by dropping an inert or very small munition onto the roof to alert the occupants that it will be stuck. They then wait to give the people a chance to get out. They then strike the building with a proper munition to destroy it. wtf. so if I text you before I come set your on fire you’d be ok with that? Make it ok? Unbelievable. Gotta hand it to the israeli propaganda machine.. they’ve even infiltrated villatalk of all places. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, Thug said: wtf. so if I text you before I come set your on fire you’d be ok with that? Make it ok? Unbelievable. Gotta hand it to the israeli propaganda machine.. they’ve even infiltrated villatalk of all places. Israel is at war Hamas and is trying to kill them. They are trying to get civilians to move out of the way so as not to hurt them if they can possibly help it. Hamas has an interest in hiding behind civilians and maximizing civilian casualties for propaganda purposes. This isn’t complicated to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Awol said: Apologise for continuing to correct things that aren’t true, but the Israelis are not indiscriminately bombing Gaza. They are bombing specific targets related to Hamas military infrastructure. If Israel was simply trying to kill Palestinians with airstrikes it could do so very rapidly on a massive scale. Instead, they give general warnings to the population to move from a specific area before it is struck, including the use of geofenced text messages to every mobile device. If the target is a building with civilian dwellings inside they also do roof knocking (a technique invented by the IAF in Gaza) by dropping an inert or very small munition onto the roof to alert the occupants that it will be stuck. They then wait to give the people a chance to get out. They then strike the building with a proper munition to destroy it. While I broadly agree with the point you’re making, the Israelis are being less discriminate than normal at the moment. They’re not bothering with the “roof knocking” at the moment, for example. There’s a lot of talk from military analysts that the sheer number of bombs they’re dropping means they’re just hitting any target building ever connected to Hamas without much care for recency, too. Etc. They’re not aiming to kill civilians right now but I don’t think they’re hugely bothered about them being collateral damage. Edited October 18, 2023 by Panto_Villan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, Awol said: Israel is at war Hamas and is trying to kill them. They are trying to get civilians to move out of the way so as not to hurt them if they can possibly help it. Hamas has an interest in hiding behind civilians and maximizing civilian casualties for propaganda purposes. This isn’t complicated to understand. It's not a war. It's an occupation of a people who wants to break free. Now it's a genocide of that same people. You know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Europe has hundreds of years experience with committing genocide against defenseless people. Even in Europe. So I am not surprised at all that the european outpost, israel, has cart blanche for killing as many as Palestinians as possible and throw them out to Egypt. Even the highest ranking military guy in israel said that it was their goal to get all palestinians out of Gaza to live in tents in the Sinai desert. I am not bothered linking to his interview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momo Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 14 minutes ago, Awol said: Israel is at war Hamas and is trying to kill them. They are trying to get civilians to move out of the way so as not to hurt them if they can possibly help it. Hamas has an interest in hiding behind civilians and maximizing civilian casualties for propaganda purposes. This isn’t complicated to understand. Yh sure buddy. yh, they’re trying to get civilians to move out the way and when they do, Hamas will just be sitting there waiting to be bombed. Hamas won’t just move along with the civilians. No, hamas aren’t clever enough to do that. Israel want the civilians out the way so that they can move in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 7 minutes ago, Thug said: Israel: hamas beheaded 40 babies. Biden: yes they did, I’ve seen the pictures. Everyone: oh my god animals! …. Some time later. White House: Actually Biden lied. No one cares any more. Israel bomb hospital. Claim credit for bombing it. Delete credit. Blame Hamas. Biden: it appears the other side did it Thick people: See it was Hamas. You literally can’t make this shit up. It's the world we live in sadly where unfortunately alot of people are naive/gullible to what is fed by the media and fail to see through most of of the bullshit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 19 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: While I broadly agree with the point you’re making, the Israelis are being less discriminate than normal at the moment. They’re not bothering with the “roof knocking” at the moment, for example. There’s a lot of talk from military analysts that the sheer number of bombs they’re dropping means they’re just hitting any target building ever connected to Hamas without much care for recency, too. Etc. They’re not aiming to kill civilians right now but I don’t think they’re hugely bothered about them being collateral damage. They are 100% aiming to kill civilians. They see the civilians as either current, or future terrorists. Theyre trying to kill them, or make them move. One is slightly better than the other in their eyes. Either way, they’ll get what they want. Vacant land. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, AvfcRigo82 said: It's the world we live in sadly where unfortunately alot of people are naive/gullible to what is fed by the media and fail to see through most of of the bullshit. It's a bit arrogant to think this only goes one way though. In the fog of war, in a age in which so much can be faked and fake news spreads at the speed of light, there's very little information that can really be trusted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 In 10 years time you’ll have the new president of America saying how wonderful the Israelis are.. look how they took this land full of rubble and turned it into one of the greatest skylines on the planet. And we’ll all go about our business like nothing ever happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 Just now, Davkaus said: It's a bit arrogant to think this only goes one way though. In the fog of war, in an age in which so much can be faked and fake news spreads at the speed of light, there's very little information that can really be trusted. Lol. there hasn’t been a fog for the last few years while they were stealing homes and creating settlements. You weren’t blinded by the fog of war then. fog or no fog. Your eyes will only see what they want to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 1 minute ago, Thug said: In 10 years time you’ll have the new president of America saying how wonderful the Israelis are.. look how they took this land full of rubble and turned it into one of the greatest skylines on the planet. And we’ll all go about our business like nothing ever happened. Okay I’ll play. Where are the 2 million Palestinians of Gaza in this scenario? Egypt won’t let them in, neither will Jordan. None of the Sunni monarchies will. Nor would Iran or Lebanon. Clearly Israel won’t. So in your scenario above, Israel now needs to murder two million Palestinians to take ownership of the Gaza Strip. Is that what you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, Davkaus said: It's a bit arrogant to think this only goes one way though. In the fog of war, in a age in which so much can be faked and fake news spreads at the speed of light, there's very little information that can really be trusted. It came from the Israelis themselves! They tweeted they bombed the hospital!!! Oh my god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 3 minutes ago, Thug said: Lol. there hasn’t been a fog for the last few years while they were stealing homes and creating settlements. You weren’t blinded by the fog of war then. fog or no fog. Your eyes will only see what they want to see. There's that arrogance I was talking about. I've not expressed much of an opinion either way so you're just throwing punches at strawmen. I'm happy to admit I've got very little idea what's going on. I've seen the removed tweets from Israeli reps, I've seen videos that claim to show a rocket launched from Palestine exploding. I've seen videos that claim to be from today that seem to show the hospital still standing, with no evidence for these hundreds and hundreds of casualties? What's real, what's fake news? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted October 18, 2023 Share Posted October 18, 2023 32 minutes ago, Awol said: Okay I’ll play. Where are the 2 million Palestinians of Gaza in this scenario? Egypt won’t let them in, neither will Jordan. None of the Sunni monarchies will. Nor would Iran or Lebanon. Clearly Israel won’t. So in your scenario above, Israel now needs to murder two million Palestinians to take ownership of the Gaza Strip. Is that what you think? Ok, now that you put it so eloquently, you’re right. Israel would never do that. Never. Quote Israel/OPT: 10 things you need to know about “annexation” On 20 April, following Israel’s third election within 10 months, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his political rival Benny Gantz formed a governing coalition under a unity deal. Included in this deal is an agreement allowing Israel’s government to start the domestic process of “annexing” parts of the occupied West Bank that includes Israeli settlements and the area of the Jordan Valley. According to the coalition deal between Netanyahu and Gantz, the government can bring “annexation” plans to debate and approval of the cabinet and Israel’s parliament, the Knesset, starting 1 July 2020. Israel’s “annexation” plan follows the announcement by US President Donald Trump of his so-called “deal of the century” in January 2020, which proposed that areas of the occupied West Bank be annexed by Israel. Amnesty International has made it clear that the Trump Administration’s plan would serve only to worsen human rights violations and enshrine the entrenched impunity that has fueled decades of war crimes, crimes against humanity, and other grave violations. According to reports, the Israeli proposal could include as much as 33% of the total area of West Bank. Here are 10 things you need to know about “annexation” https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/07/israelopt-10-things-you-need-to-know-about-annexation/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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