Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[Lichfield Dean]

I mean, it's fairly clear to me that that image is a classic case of a news outfit taking an image out of context, tweaking the contrast perhaps, and promoting it as evidence of something it isn't. I hate that sort of thing, always have, and I don't care what "side" promotes this sort of misleading propaganda.

It doesn't mean that the Russian authorities aren't evil fascists. It just means that this particular image doesn't really represent what the news outlet is claiming.

[sidcow]

6 minutes ago, Lichfield Dean said:

I mean, it's fairly clear to me that that image is a classic case of a news outfit taking an image out of context, tweaking the contrast perhaps, and promoting it as evidence of something it isn't. I hate that sort of thing, always have, and I don't care what "side" promotes this sort of misleading propaganda.

It doesn't mean that the Russian authorities aren't evil fascists. It just means that this particular image doesn't really represent what the news outlet is claiming.

Whatever you think, it's an odd colour scheme to put together. You could choose 100 ways to plaster something on your arm, but that is a striking similarity to a Nazi armband. 

Surely someone would have looked at it and put their hand up to maybe change the colours or design because, you know, it's a bad look. 

[Panto_Villan]

11 hours ago, magnkarl said:

Next week marks the third wave of mobilisation in Ukraine, meaning that another 100.000 men are done training and will be deployed, on top of the 4-500.000 already deployed. This wave will be trained with western rifles, have US equipment and be rested + motivated to stop a genocide.

Every day that passes pushes the manpower balance well into Ukraine’s court. 100 artillerymen are due after training in the US, and 40 in France. The kit they’re getting deployed with out ranges Russia’s best artillery. The counter battery fire from these systems should trash Russian artillery wherever they are.

So one thing I noticed which was weird was that the US-provided artillery doesn’t actually outrange the Russian stuff, despite the pro-Ukrainian OSINT claiming it does. Seeing so many of the people who apparently know what they’re talking about repeating the same incorrect fact is a little concerning imo, unless I’m somehow missing something.

(I’m guessing the ammo provided will be better and the counter-battery radars will make it more effective overall, but still)

Edited May 1, 2022 by Panto_Villan

[Panto_Villan]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

You haven't seen Chernobyl the lost tapes have you.

31 people died related to the disaster according to the Russians, the rest just had radiophobia. The figure was actually closer to 200k.

They have always lied beyond reason through out history.

There doesn’t seem to be that much evidence of widespread casualties from Chernobyl from what I can see. It’s a shame in a way because it causes a lot of knee-jerk reactions about the safety of modern nuclear power plants, which are potentially a good source of low-emissions energy as we transition to renewables.

I think less than 50 people died as a direct result of Chernobyl, and many of those died in the explosion or physical firefighting rather than anything related to radiation.

The assumption of high casualties was people estimating the amount of radiation locals were exposed to and statistically extrapolating how much cancer would shorten their lives. I’m not sure there’s much evidence that it actually had much of an effect in the end, and even if it did it’d be people losing a few years at the end of their lives rather than dropping dead immediately.

[foreveryoung]

2 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

There doesn’t seem to be that much evidence of widespread casualties from Chernobyl from what I can see. It’s a shame in a way because it causes a lot of knee-jerk reactions about the safety of modern nuclear power plants, which are potentially a good source of low-emissions energy as we transition to renewables.

I think less than 50 people died as a direct result of Chernobyl, and many of those died in the explosion or physical firefighting rather than anything related to radiation.

The assumption of high casualties was people estimating the amount of radiation locals were exposed to and statistically extrapolating how much cancer would shorten their lives. I’m not sure there’s much evidence that it actually had much of an effect in the end, and even if it did it’d be people losing a few years at the end of their lives rather than dropping dead immediately.

I thought this. You need to watch the documentary "The lost tapes". Really, it's a eye opener.

[Panto_Villan]

6 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I thought this. You need to watch the documentary "The lost tapes". Really, it's a eye opener.

Fair enough, will check it out when I get a moment.

[bickster]

26 minutes ago, sidcow said:

Surely someone would have looked at it and put their hand up to maybe change the colours or design because, you know, it's a bad look. 

Which is exactly why it is trolling. It's deliberate

Ukraine says "Look at the Fascists"

Russia Says "They are just numbering rows for our parade"

I don't blame Ukraine for reacting but it would be better if they didn't

As has been explained before, the idea here isn't to get people to change their opinion completely, it's to sow doubt and move opinion into the grey zone. Ukraine may have weighed up the options and decided its better to push their line anyway. My opinion is that it isn't, stuff like this should be ignored.

[magnkarl]

43 minutes ago, Lichfield Dean said:

I mean, it's fairly clear to me that that image is a classic case of a news outfit taking an image out of context, tweaking the contrast perhaps, and promoting it as evidence of something it isn't. I hate that sort of thing, always have, and I don't care what "side" promotes this sort of misleading propaganda.

It doesn't mean that the Russian authorities aren't evil fascists. It just means that this particular image doesn't really represent what the news outlet is claiming.

I don't think one needs to put too much emphasis on what it is. For a state (Russia) that claims to see Nazi symbolism everywhere, it's just ironic that they can't see the symbolism in their own parade outfit. That is all. I had no deeper meaning to posting it.

[magnkarl]

45 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said:

So one thing I noticed which was weird was that the US-provided artillery doesn’t actually outrange the Russian stuff, despite the pro-Ukrainian OSINT claiming it does. Seeing so many of the people who apparently know what they’re talking about repeating the same incorrect fact is a little concerning imo, unless I’m somehow missing something.

(I’m guessing the ammo provided will be better and the counter-battery radars will make it more effective overall, but still)

I guess this statement needs to be rectified slightly:

a) Caesar artillery provided by France does outrange 2s19 (36km with Russian HERA shells - a lot shorter with normal ordinance vs 45km), which is the main piece of long range artillery Russia is using in this conflict. You can claim that Russia also has Pion and Giatsint, but they've been largely unused in this war and are likely overhyped like the SU35 or the T-14 armata.

b) American systems delivered have pretty much the same ranges as the 2s19, however with drones and better radars will likely be better at the longest ranges than Russian gear.

c) The Russian top of the line equipment is suffering, they're now pushing forward 1960's howitzers with much shorter ranges than the 'new-ish' 2s19.

Edited May 1, 2022 by magnkarl

[bickster]

4 hours ago, magnkarl said:

I don't think one needs to put too much emphasis on what it is. For a state (Russia) that claims to see Nazi symbolism everywhere, it's just ironic that they can't see the symbolism in their own parade outfit. That is all. I had no deeper meaning to posting it.

They can see it. They want you to post it in exactly the way you have done. They hope it blows up, then they can deny it and point out that the police uniforms are in fact grey not black and all the armbands are doing is helping in organising their parade.

The aim is two-fold;

• sowing doubt in those who have a soft commitment to the Ukraine side, not getting them onside with Russia but moving them to a place where they don't believe everything. If they can do this enough times they will succeed in shifting people from the pro-camp to the fence sitting whatabout camp where everything starts to be questioned. People who post it and get annoyed by it are doing Putin's work for him
• For the domestic propaganda machine, it can be reported as "look at the Nazi's accusing us of being the same", everyone knows our police uniforms are grey and the numbers on the armbands are just to keep track of the rows, that's why only the othermost column are wearing them, this is really pathetic of them yada yada yada

That's the way Russian trolling works and the Ukraine oulet you posted it from appears to have fallen for it, you and countless others have spread it about and those who support Ukraine spread it again and againthen and away it goes. You aren't the target audience but you are the method of it reaching them.

 

[Awol]

Take this however you want but there seems to be a real possibility that General Gerasimov, Chief of the Russian General Staff since 2012, was wounded in the strike on a Russian HQ near Izyum, yesterday. 

 

[bickster]

Just now, Awol said:

Take this however you want but there seems to be a real possibility that General Gerasimov, Chief of the Russian General Staff since 2012, was wounded in the strike on a Russian HQ near Izyum, yesterday. 

 

If he was in that strike that killed the General we were talking about yesterday there's a very good chance this isn't a papercut. Taking out the actual head of all the Russian Armed Serices just shouldn't happen, even in a country where senior officers are pushed onto the front line

Sure visit and issue direct instructions from a rear command post but right up by the front line? thats mental. Russian communications networks must really be absolutely as bad as Ukraine claims. Surely he could have done whatever he was doing by meeting senior officers in the relative safety of Luhansk or even across the border in Russia itself

[sne]

That military parade on May 9th is it? is going to have a lot of gaps (or newly promoted generals) in it 

[bickster]

Belgorod seems like a very flamable and accident prone location in Russia just over the Ukraine border. Kursk seems to suffer too

Ukraine Pravda

Quote

In the Belgorod region a Russian Federation Ministry of Defence facility is on fire [...]

Source: Governor of the Belgorod region Vyacheslav Gladkov on Telegram

Quote: "On the border of three municipalities - Borisovsky and Belgorod districts and Yakovlev city district - there has been a fire on the territory of one of the facilities of the Ministry of Defence of the Russian Federation.[...]

Quote

Background: On 1 May, a railway bridge collapsed in the Russian region of Kursk, the governor of the region said.

[Awol]

More nuclear threats against the UK from Russian TV randos. Amazingly they always fail to mention the resulting nuclear retaliation. 

 

Starting to wonder if this theatre is about preparing and shaping Russian domestic opinion. Establish a baseline level of fear within the population that nuclear war might be necessary, then drop the bomb that avoiding it will require a general mobilisation. Putin is then presenting an unwanted but less severe alternative.

Edited May 1, 2022 by Awol

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, Awol said:

Starting to wonder if this theatre is about preparing and shaping Russian domestic opinion. Establish a baseline level of fear within the population that nuclear war might be necessary, then drop the bomb that avoiding it will require a general mobilisation. Putin is then presenting an unwanted but less severe alternative.

Thats my take on it too, tell them something worse to get them to comply with what you want

[maqroll]

Japanese soldiers fighting in Europe!

They don't look very tough but I suppose looks can be deceiving.

Banzai!

[bickster]

A little more on the attack on the HQ near Izyum yesterday

Gerasimov only has a shrapnel wound to the shin (which wasn't broken) but he was Air Evacced out of Belgorod to Moscow pretty sharpish using three identical aircraft and Aligator Heicopters to secure the airspace while the planes were on the tarmac. There are are eye witness reports that saw him walk on the plane unassisted but thats rather a side issue to the 20 dead high ranking Russian officers

[Zatman]

On 30/04/2022 at 14:01, sidcow said:

I think there is less brainwashing than people think, I think a lot know the truth but it's just very dangerous to protest or even be seen to disagree so people look after no 1 and keep their heads down. 

Was watching a video last week from a Russian vlogger in exile and he was talking about the popularity polls. he said when they call asking about political opinions its best to agree with them or say you are too busy to speak at the moment because they already have your information if give the wrong answer

[magnkarl]

Obviously this wasn’t the plan either. On to phase 3 where Russia sends all generals forward in their underwear with a sword in one hand and a soviet flag in the other.