blandy Posted March 13, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, KentVillan said: @bicksterlooks like confirmation that NATO people have been training and assisting Ukrainians just inside the Ukraine border, hence the unexpected Russian missile attack in the west Looks like the place where all the volunteers from all over were maybe being on-boarded into the Ukraine forces etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 13, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 13, 2022 Just now, PussEKatt said: I do realise that Ukrain is not a NATO country and I realise why NATO cant just butt in to someone elses war but there are acouple of things that I dont understand,maybe somone can explain to me the following. 1 - IMHO the west will have to fight Russia,the only question is,now or later. 2 - IMHO the west is letting Putin call all the shots,eg " A no -fly zone is an act of war " (so atacking Ukrain is not ?! ) 3- Why does not the west take a stronger stand against that dipstick ?eg assination,more and better weapons,the latest planes. 4 - IMHO surley the west could see that the Russians are really poor fighters,I mean they still have not taken Kiev and this is supposed to be "The Russian army" fighting a bunch of unprepared,smaller army,and civilians. 1. They are attemtping to avoid it at all costs, because nukes 2. See above 3. See above 4. See above 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 minute ago, bickster said: Yes I saw that but there was no confirmation that it was currently happening that I could see He’s writing in the present tense and saying he was there yesterday, but agree it’s not 100% confirmation. Guess we’ll never really know until all the intel is declassified in a few decades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 1 minute ago, blandy said: Looks like the place where all the volunteers from all over were maybe being on-boarded into the Ukraine forces etc. Yes but NATO instructors = current NATO military personnel Agree with @bicksterit’s unclear exactly what is happening right now vs in the weeks leading up to it, but my guess is Nato would feel fairly comfortable having people based near Lviv since no Russian ground forces will be there any time soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 13, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, KentVillan said: He’s writing in the present tense and saying he was there yesterday, but agree it’s not 100% confirmation. Guess we’ll never really know until all the intel is declassified in a few decades He also tweeted this and as he's American, I don't pay too much attention to the tenses he's posting in He could have specifically mentioned it in this seemingly clarifying tweet 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, bickster said: 1. They are attemtping to avoid it at all costs, because nukes 2. See above 3. See above 4. See above I do realise that but does the west really believe that Putin will be done after he has taken Ukrain. He seems like the sort of person that will only stop when someone else stops him and not before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 13, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Yes but NATO instructors = current NATO military personnel Agree with @bicksterit’s unclear exactly what is happening right now vs in the weeks leading up to it, but my guess is Nato would feel fairly comfortable having people based near Lviv since no Russian ground forces will be there any time soon We don’t know there are current NATO serving armed forces personnel there. The attack doesn’t change that knowledge. I’m not disputing anyone saying there are, or there aren’t, I don’t know. I just don’t see the attack as evidence of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 13, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 13, 2022 Just now, PussEKatt said: I do realise that but does the west really believe that Putin will be done after he has taken Ukrain. He seems like the sort of person that will only stop when someone else stops him and not before. I don't think its likely he'll have enough forces left in the forseeable future to take anywhere else and provide domestic security to his country You'll note he seems to be drafting in more Chechen and now Syrian volunteers too, he's actually running out of front line personel. Yes that does mean Russia is actually using foreign fighters 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, blandy said: We don’t know there are current NATO serving armed forces personnel there. The attack doesn’t change that knowledge. I’m not disputing anyone saying there are, or there aren’t, I don’t know. I just don’t see the attack as evidence of it. Oh I didn’t mean the attack - I meant the journo saying he’d been there yesterday and seemed to think trainers were based there. It’s not proof, no. Just seemed like an indicator that it could be happening, and I also think NATO’s policy of not coming into conflict with Russia doesn’t preclude them having people in Ukraine in the regions where there is no Russian ground presence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, bickster said: He also tweeted this and as he's American, I don't pay too much attention to the tenses he's posting in He could have specifically mentioned it in this seemingly clarifying tweet Yeah, cheers for confirming that to the Russians though aye Simon, great help. This is what we are talking about with the media, please shut the **** up already!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 13, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 13, 2022 4 minutes ago, KentVillan said: Oh I didn’t mean the attack - I meant the journo saying he’d been there yesterday and seemed to think trainers were based there. It’s not proof, no. Just seemed like an indicator that it could be happening, and I also think NATO’s policy of not coming into conflict with Russia doesn’t preclude them having people in Ukraine in the regions where there is no Russian ground presence. I guess it’s how you read his tweet. It’s definitely a location where NATO has had people at times. It’s almost the, or one of, the purposes of the base. But whether they’re still there.. like you say it could be so, or it might not be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 The question that remains is what happens to Belarus, Syria, Chechnya, Kazakhstan, South Ossetia and so on if Putin is removed. I presume Assad will likely go south along with Lukashenko, and I also assume that's why they're committing personell to this war. Putin is the card that holds many authoritarian #¤"#¤ in power around him, it'd be like going to the loo after a two week constipation if they all fell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 13, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 13, 2022 14 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Yeah, cheers for confirming that to the Russians though aye Simon, great help. This is what we are talking about with the media, please shut the **** up already!! I doubt his tweet gives anything away that wasn't already known, in fact I rather suspect that was exactly why they attacked the base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, bickster said: I doubt his tweet gives anything away that wasn't already known, in fact I rather suspect that was exactly why they attacked the base Good confirmation that they hit the right spot though, yeah? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 13, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, bickster said: I don't think its likely he'll have enough forces left in the forseeable future to take anywhere else and provide domestic security to his country You'll note he seems to be drafting in more Chechen and now Syrian volunteers too, he's actually running out of front line personel. Yes that does mean Russia is actually using foreign fighters I saw an interview with a senior Lithuanian politician earlier. I got the distinct impression that they're ready and confident if Russia invades. They're probably teeming with modern weapons now and probably getting continual training from Nato armies. Probably developing all sorts of defences and traps. If Russia tries another invasion of a nearby state I think their already beleaguered armed forces are going to be stretched thinner and encounter modern well trained, dug in armies everywhere they turn. Edited March 13, 2022 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 13, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 13, 2022 2 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Good confirmation that they hit the right spot though, yeah? This really isn't WW2, they will know exactly where they hit with a cruise missile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mozzavfc Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 18 minutes ago, magnkarl said: The question that remains is what happens to Belarus, Syria, Chechnya, Kazakhstan, South Ossetia and so on if Putin is removed. I presume Assad will likely go south along with Lukashenko, and I also assume that's why they're committing personell to this war. Putin is the card that holds many authoritarian #¤"#¤ in power around him, it'd be like going to the loo after a two week constipation if they all fell. Belarusians have been trying to get rid of Lukashenko for years, so he'll be gone as soon as Putin goes. It's only been 12months since the last set of protests ended, and that had about a tenth of the population in it, so without Russian police assistance the next set will be massive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 13, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, sidcow said: If Russia tries another invasion of a nearby state I think their already beleaguered armed forces are going to be stretched thinner and e counter modern well trained, dug in armies everywhere they turn. Not so sure that's particularly true in Georgia's case I was watching some Sarah Pascoe Travel thing about Georgia the other week, filmed before the current Ukraine situation but she went up to the border of the "disputed" region. Military on one side, but nothing more than Police on the Georgian side. If they had decent military now might be a good time to reclaim they country back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 3 minutes ago, bickster said: This really isn't WW2, they will know exactly where they hit with a cruise missile Thanks for reminding me, do you think I don't know this, or do you just want me to say "okay your right I'm wrong, yet again"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 13, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 13, 2022 Just now, foreveryoung said: do you think I don't know this Well quite obviously I think that because you said it in your post Maybe if you actually said things that were your opinion rather than things that are not your opinion we'd know what you know 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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