Personal Independence Payment Farce

[hippo]

 

 

Today my wife, who suffers from MS won her case a tribunal - obviously I was pleased for her. Being disabled has massively limited her earning potential - and in general life is more expensive for disabled person. Travel insurance, medication, choice of car, etc. My pleasure was quickly replaced by anger at the whole demeaning process my wife has been put through - this must be a costly process and is totally unnecessary.

My wife filled in a form to switch over from DLA to PIP  - shortly afterwards we received a letter saying that a health care professional would like to visit us at home  - no problem with that.

The problems arrived when the health care professional arrived. Early on it became apparent that this person wasn't all that switched on pretty early into the interview she admitted 'I don't understand what MS is' - She declined to take any of the photocopies of hospital correspondence that I had prepared - which would have given much more info on wifes condition than the half baked questions she was asking my wife.

After many months the result came back - no my wife wasn't entitled to PIP. - In fact she scored zero points !!!! - The letter was absolute farce extracts include

"I note you drive a manual car - which indicates strong lower leg length"

We spend about 20 minutes discussing how budgeting decisions are made (basically I do it all) - the one line response in the letter was 

"You are able to make budgeting decisions"  - I mean why bother asking the question ?

We were then invited to apply for a mandatory reconsideration, I also contacted my MP at this point my complaint

The person who visited our house admitted she knew nothing about MS

No request had ever made to my wifes GP - or the consultant who monitors her MS - which for the life of me I don't understand. 

We lost the mandatory reconsideration, we were still at zero points. I felt like giving up. It was only the the fact that my wife's sister who also had MS (but not as bad as my wife) got the benefit straight off that spurred me on. So off we went to the tribunal, There were 3 independent people, some sort of clerk to the court and a DWP representative. Early on the DWP person tried to contest use of hands because my wife likes to do jig saws - he was quickly put in place when one the independents asked him if he realised jig saw pieces don't tend to carry much weight ! - he didn't say much after that.

We left the room - called back - PIP granted, with an assurance that my wife won't have to go through this again for at least 10 years - and probably not at all. Not bad given the previous 2 assessments gave us zero points.

Right result in the end - but WTF is going on here ? - why didn't they ask the GP or consultant about my wifes condition , instead of talking about jigsaw puzzles, and why she drives a manual car ! 

Utter madness !

 

 

 

 

  

Edited April 6, 2017 by hippo

[rjw63]

because they're useless pricks hoping you won't contest the original decision and save the shysters some money.

Scum, is what they are.

[markavfc40]

@hippo I genuinely feel for you mate and it is completely immoral that on top of everything else your wife has to cope with she, and you, have had the stress of this.

The problem lies in the whole culture of the basis on which these assessments are carried out in that the assessors are not qualified to undertake them and approach them looking for reasons why you are not entitled to the benefit rather than all the reasons you are.

Thankfully you have gotten what you are entitled to in the end but you should never have had to go through what you have to get it.

 

 

 

[hippo]

I honestly believe that no matter what I said the initial decision was always going be 'no' - I honestly believe that whatever I put on the mandatory reconsideration that was always going to be 'no'. On today's tribunal showing - it was always going to be a 'yes'  

Eventually everyone will get to know that you always 'get it' at tribunal, and the system will become even more bloated and expensive. Surely the could save loads of admin cash by just getting a medical report from the consultant.  

[Davkaus]

22 minutes ago, hippo said:

 

Right result in the end - but WTF is going on here ? - why didn't they ask the GP or consultant about my wifes condition , instead of talking about jigsaw puzzles, and why she drives a manual car ! 

  

DWP employees and agents have a financial incentive to decline people. They get bonuses for keeping money out of the hands of people who need it, and if they don't hit their targets, they'll lose their job.

They're not interested in whether your wife needs and is entitled to this money, they'll happily lie and misrepresent what people say to line their own pockets. 

[Paddywhack]

Glad it's been sorted, but it's infuriating to read. This isn't something you should have to worry about.

It's sad that there's probably people out there not getting what they're entitled to because they didn't push it like you did.

[JB]

My mom has been through something similar. She's been quite seriously ill over the past year due to a debilitating condition that she's been dealing with for years. Things were actually touch and go for while. This has obviously meant that she hasn't been able to work (and has only ever been able to work part time for years now). 

However, the process of trying to get a PIPs re-assessment has been a shitshow, to say the very least. There have even been two occasions where the private company who've been contracted to carry out the assessments have cancelled actually on the day of the her assessment! Once just 40 minutes in advance!

I just can't get my head around how things like this can be handled in such a way in a civilised society. The whole thing is disgusting and immoral. 

[hippo]

20 minutes ago, Paddywhack said:

Glad it's been sorted, but it's infuriating to read. This isn't something you should have to worry about.

It's sad that there's probably people out there not getting what they're entitled to because they didn't push it like you did.

I consider myself a pretty determined guy. I fought and got all my moneyback and more when lo cost holidays went bust. This did have me beaten at one stage - it must be desined with that in mind.

[choffer]

Sorry you've had to go through all that but delighted you got what you needed out of it. This system really is screwed.

[trekka]

3 hours ago, Paddywhack said:

Glad it's been sorted, but it's infuriating to read. This isn't something you should have to worry about.

It's sad that there's probably people out there not getting what they're entitled to because they didn't push it like you did.

I don't usually reply with "this" statements, but absolutely "this".

I'm sorry that you and your family had to go through that @hippo, but it's a testament to your strength and perseverance that you got what was right.  I fear for other people who don't have the strength to ask questions and something is very wrong there. 

[Stevo985]

Unfortunately, it's probably a case of "say no to everything and if someone can be arsed to take it to tribunal then we'll pay it. But a lot of people will give up and we'll save money!"

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

I used to work with people who claimed these benefits, or more accurately I worked for a private company who tried to get claimants off them through work, or reassessment (when they were judged fit for work).

It was a real issue and I made a special effort to help people when they truly needed it....much to the displeasure of my company. They say it doesn't but it does work like that.
At least the panels have started to work for and not against claimants, though it took many years for that to happen.

The whole system stinks, right from the jobcentre to the assessments. Sadly @Stevo985 has it right, they rely on people either not making the effort or struggling to understand the language and process.

Having said that the most successful claimants were always the ones who said nothing....in many cases honesty is not something that favours a claimant.
Glad you saw justice, eventually.

Edited April 7, 2017 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay

[hippo]

6 hours ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

I used to work with people who claimed these benefits, or more accurately I worked for a private company who tried to get claimants off them through work, or reassessment (when they were judged fit for work).

It was a real issue and I made a special effort to help people when they truly needed it....much to the displeasure of my company. They say it doesn't but it does work like that.
At least the panels have started to work for and not against claimants, though it took many years for that to happen.

The whole system stinks, right from the jobcentre to the assessments. Sadly @Stevo985 has it right, they rely on people either not making the effort or struggling to understand the language and process.

Having said that the most successful claimants were always the ones who said nothing....in many cases honesty is not something that favours a claimant.
Glad you saw justice, eventually.

Surely though any savings will have a limited lifespan. Yesterdays appeal must have cost loads in manpower - and the success rate at appeal is close on 70% and rising. More people are going to go to tribunal - increasing cost overheads - and making the cost of running the first 2 assessments a total waste. 

I thought the tories were supposed to thrive on ruthless efficiency !. 

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Surely though any savings will have a limited lifespan. Yesterdays appeal must have cost loads in manpower - and the success rate at appeal is close on 70% and rising. More people are going to go to tribunal - increasing cost overheads - and making the cost of running the first 2 assessments a total waste. 

I thought the tories were supposed to thrive on ruthless efficiency !. 

Exactly right. And no, the problem is the Tories don't know what they are impacting; they just assume life is like X,Y and Z without really exploring the reality. Hence the panel debacle. 
I used to think it was arrogance but on too many occasions I have experienced it as ignorance. So many just don't know any better!

Just for the record I started my benefits advice journey under the Labour party and the mess you see before you is their structure. They devalued our public services to the point of almost impossible return, especially in benefits.

I hold Labour very much accountable for this mess, I didn't expect the Tories to do anything less than rub their hands with glee at how privatised Labour made the benefits and job searching system. The Tories are doing what they always do, think this as about work and not a route into work.

Edited April 7, 2017 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay

[mockingbird_franklin]

The system doesn't save any money, that wasn't ever the reason behind it's implementation, The rigged assessment proces costs more than it saves, but it's not about saving money, It's not about routing out the scroungers and fakers, it's about targeting the weak and fragile who don't have the capacity to take it on.

Just like the ESA assessment system, it is about making ludicrous rules in a rigged 'test' to reach a preferred decision, The whole system is based around UMIN insurance's fraudulent system designed to enable avoiding paying out valid insurance claims, As you have found out the real assessment as to if and what you should receive according to the law takes place when you reach the tribunal stage, it's disgusting and perverse.