Vive_La_Villa Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, dn1982 said: To do that we’d have have to beat good teams something that’s alluding us so far. The beauty of knockout competitions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 11 minutes ago, terrytini said: Blimey a couple of hours ago there was a nice rational debate using balanced views and stats in here....I’ve just popped in for a look and it’s turned into kindergarten! @Grasshopper started it 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Grasshopper said: you do realise that 7 PTS OFF the 2ppg total means 7 wins on the trot to catch up I must correct myself here if Cardiff lose their next game they’ll have 47pts from 23 IF they achieve that 94 pts with a better GD or above gets you 2nd IF we beat SheffU and NOBODY overtakes them they’ll finish with 74pts (we would then be on 40pts/23games - 80pts doubled) We can also lose/Draw v SheffU ending the halfway stage 9th having to overtake 3 teams for a playoff place. Now depending on the interpretation (or straw.....) of what M118 kindly posted. A target for 2nd would be (94pts) 94-37= 57 25games = 57pts thats 2ppg PLUS 7 EXTRA points over a 2ppg average for those specific 7 games 7 games = 21pts 57-21=36 36 pts needed in the 18 games left thats an average of 9wins if we go UNBEATEN So we have to win 16 of our remaining 25 games or the equivelant higher amount should we lose a game Now Maths really isnt my strongest point However - Realism is Bruce Out A new manager has 1 - a shot at 2nd (albeit a long one) 2 - as good a shot as Bruce has for the playoffs 3 - at worst, more time to prepare us for next season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: I must correct myself here if Cardiff lose their next game they’ll have 47pts from 23 IF they achieve that 94 pts with a better GD or above gets you 2nd IF we beat SheffU and NOBODY overtakes them they’ll finish with 74pts (we would then be on 40pts/23games - 80pts doubled) We can also lose/Draw v SheffU ending the halfway stage 9th having to overtake 3 teams for a playoff place. Now depending on the interpretation (or straw.....) of what M118 kindly posted. A target for 2nd would be (94pts) 94-37= 57 25games = 57pts thats 2ppg PLUS 7 EXTRA points over a 2ppg average for those specific 7 games 7 games = 21pts 57-21=36 36 pts needed in the 18 games left thats an average of 9wins if we go UNBEATEN So we have to win 16 of our remaining 25 games or the equivelant higher amount should we lose a game Now Maths really isnt my strongest point However - Realism is Bruce Out A new manager has 1 - a shot at 2nd (albeit a long one) 2 - as good a shot as Bruce has for the playoffs 3 - at worst, more time to prepare us for next season So you think Bruce should be sacked? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 19 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Argh! Grrrrr! All these people saying Steve Bruce is the best manager we have ever had. God I hate them. Bloody idiots! Am I doing it right? Yes. Finally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 17 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Sure why not? £10 Donation to VT? It can be put toward more storage to hold the Steve Bruce thread yes for clarification ( @BOF ) feel free to verify. Bruce doesnt not get us promoted via the playoffs this season 2017/18 Definition - Finishing 1st, 2nd, 7th or lower is NOT a formular for „promotion via the playoffs“ which is what you stated. If you want to bet for 2nd also I‘ll donate £20 against your £10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Grasshopper said: yes for clarification ( @BOF ) feel free to verify. Bruce doesnt not get us promoted via the playoffs this season 2017/18 Definition - Finishing 1st, 2nd, 7th or lower is NOT a formular for „promotion via the playoffs“ which is what you stated. If you want to bet for 2nd also I‘ll donate £20 against your £10 2nd isn't going to happen. Playoff bet is on!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: 2nd isn't going to happen. Playoff bet is on!! @BOF noted? or another mod (I believe it was BOF who verified my bet with VoZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: 2nd isn't going to happen. Playoff bet is on!! Note If we get promoted either automatically or via the playoffs I will be ecstatic. AND I‘ll be cheering the team on all the way I‘ll gladly pay up on both of my bets I‘ll also reserve the right to the opinion that we would get promotion despite Bruce not because of him. Our squad of players are much better as footballers than Bruce is a manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 33 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: @Grasshopper started it No he didn’t ...... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 Just now, terrytini said: No he didn’t ...... Stevo did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 12 minutes ago, Grasshopper said: Note If we get promoted either automatically or via the playoffs I will be ecstatic. AND I‘ll be cheering the team on all the way I‘ll gladly pay up on both of my bets I‘ll also reserve the right to the opinion that we would get promotion despite Bruce not because of him. Our squad of players are much better as footballers than Bruce is a manager I love the way you quickly got that disclaimer in there. God forbid anyone should ever think you gave Bruce some credit for getting us promoted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post peterms Posted December 18, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted December 18, 2017 50 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I think everyone has agreed we should have been targeting Automatic promotion this season, and 2ppg is generally needed to achieve that. I think what you're struggling with is people saying that if we fall short of that target but STILL achieve promotion, then they would accept that. It's not so much "should have been" targetting automatic promotion, more that this was in fact the target, and 2ppg was seen as a rough and ready measure of whether we were on course for that. If we achieved an average of 2ppg and didn't get promoted, Bruce would not have met the target set by Xia. Some people have seemed uncertain about whether automatic promotion was the target, for example asking for links to demonstrate it. Perhaps the last couple of pages indicate that people do accept that this is the case and that it doesn't need to be further substantiated. If we get promoted via the playoffs, then everyone will be enormously relieved and grateful about getting out of this division. I doubt that anyone struggles to find promotion very welcome, not just acceptable, however achieved. But if we get up via the playoffs after an unconvincing season (and this has been an unconvincing season, so far), then I would be very surprised if Xia were to think that everything was just fine and dandy, and that he should stick with the manager as the way forward for the club. There are questions there in any event even if we somehow made second spot about whether the playing style is what the club wants to see, about whether we are building a strong squad to move forward and so on, but they probably are seen as more pressing questions if we don't get an automatic promotion spot. Those questions are what are on people's minds, and they don't just go away if we get promoted. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 24 minutes ago, peterms said: It's not so much "should have been" targetting automatic promotion, more that this was in fact the target, and 2ppg was seen as a rough and ready measure of whether we were on course for that. If we achieved an average of 2ppg and didn't get promoted, Bruce would not have met the target set by Xia. Some people have seemed uncertain about whether automatic promotion was the target, for example asking for links to demonstrate it. Perhaps the last couple of pages indicate that people do accept that this is the case and that it doesn't need to be further substantiated. If we get promoted via the playoffs, then everyone will be enormously relieved and grateful about getting out of this division. I doubt that anyone struggles to find promotion very welcome, not just acceptable, however achieved. But if we get up via the playoffs after an unconvincing season (and this has been an unconvincing season, so far), then I would be very surprised if Xia were to think that everything was just fine and dandy, and that he should stick with the manager as the way forward for the club. There are questions there in any event even if we somehow made second spot about whether the playing style is what the club wants to see, about whether we are building a strong squad to move forward and so on, but they probably are seen as more pressing questions if we don't get an automatic promotion spot. Those questions are what are on people's minds, and they don't just go away if we get promoted. spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Argh! Grrrrr! All these people saying Steve Bruce is the best manager we have ever had. God I hate them. Bloody idiots! Am I doing it right? Welcome aboard sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheStagMan Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: The beauty of knockout competitions. Yes, we would only have to play one of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 11 hours ago, mrjc said: I see what you mean - and I find the timing a difficult one, as it's not ideal at this stage. For me though, it vindicates the view that he should have gone very early in the season, when (to me at least) it seemed he hadn't really made any progress on addressing last year's shortcomings. We'll now never know whether that was a risk worth taking, but I believed at that point we would not be capable of getting up automatically (if at all), and the last few months have done nothing to change my mind. I appreciate we've had injuries, but we're now almost halfway through the season and 10 points off an automatic spot, which for me was absolutely the deliverable this season. That's with more than a year in the job, and very significant resources (inherited and spent, including wages) available to him. A good manager ultimately overcomes the challenges, rather than using them as reasons for not delivering. Back to your point about timing, on which I generally see what you mean - ultimately I still don't feel at all confident he will achieve our goals this season, so I would still favour a change (assuming the club has a succession plan). No denying that, but in the interest of consistency, presumably players do the same. Players have to adapt to circumstances , not wallow in melancholy......Its called rolling your sleeves up and facing adversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 2 hours ago, srsmithusa said: I would. I just don't think he's going to reach the goal set for him. I have no idea who could replace him. That should be the responsibility of Wyness and Round. But whoever s/he is, I would rather get them in now, so they can work with the team for a bit, then have a window to make some changes. Is it a risk? Of course it is. But I think sticking is pretty close to guaranteed falling short. So taking the risk has become the safer bet. IMO. I think this is very debatable. I understand the argument, about not attacking enough....and I have great empathy for for it.....However, we need to be careful what we wish for. Steve Bruce did this at Blues IIRC bowed to fan pressure, started playing more attacking and lost the resilience and went backwards.....Its not as simple as some think. We could have another manager come in and do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 I can though. It is you that can't and is getting all hung up on it. Santa will be here soon. Maybe he will bring you something to change your focus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael118 Posted December 18, 2017 Share Posted December 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, TRO said: I think this is very debatable. I understand the argument, about not attacking enough....and I have great empathy for for it.....However, we need to be careful what we wish for. Steve Bruce did this at Blues IIRC bowed to fan pressure, started playing more attacking and lost the resilience and went backwards.....Its not as simple as some think. We could have another manager come in and do the same. Maybe it's negativity then and not resilience. If it was true resilience things shouldn't go backwards when you try and go forwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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