The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[Awol]

24 minutes ago, darrenm said:

So with what's happened since, are you starting to think you were wrong and the experts were right? Or were you expecting this level of shit storm?

The $ is at 1.37 against the £, down about $0.05 on April. The FTSE is at the same level it was in April.

The markets had a thoroughly predictable fit, regained its head and is sitting in a reasonable place. 

So really the question is what shit storm? The chatterati are trying to make out the sky has fallen but no such thing has actually happened. 

The Germans want a free trade deal, South Korea and others are already saying the same, Aston Martin have just confirmed a £200 million investment into a new plant in Wales... It is going to be fine, relax. 

[jackbauer24]

I have been an ever increasing Remain supporter. My gut instinct was to remain but then did this thing called 'thinking and research' and realised it was clearly the only choice for the good of the country, europe and future generations.

However, my absolute disgust at some, even a majority, of Leave supporters is not that they feel different to me (that's democracy) but that they gave zero thought to it or have such strong misconceptions about what they voted for. They have potentially ruined the future of this country and their children based on stupidity. I have no issue with contrasting views or priorities or well intentioned decisions that might not worked out, but I dispair at stupidity.

If you voted Leave to curb immigration you failed - not only are places like Pakistan, India or Africa not in Europe (where the racist vote was aimed) but even the Leave campaigners have already admitted they can't curb European immigration (where the xenophobic vote was aimed) as it'll be part of trade negotiations and allowing free movement. If you voted out for this reason, you're a moron frankly. On a personal level, I also think you're quite selfish to not care about human beings just because they're not British.

If you voted Leave because you wanted to show your displeasure at the government/ establishement then you're an uneducated fool. All you actually did was get one man to resign and give all the other cretins at Westminster far more power than they had before. You've basically handed them absolute power with no oversight at all.

If you voted Leave so we have £350m extra on NHS etc then perhaps you're just naive, any closer look at the facts would have shown this was impossible. Farage took less than 24hrs to say this was bollocks.

If you voted Leave because you felt like you were being bullied by 'scare stories' about plummeting pound (down biggest amount in 30 years), loss of value in FTSE (down immediately, banks especially) and big companies leaving UK (HSBC and Samsung strong links so far) or Scotland breaking away from UK (basically confirmed by Sturgeon) then I bet you're feeling pretty stupid right now.

If you voted Leave because you think short term pain is worth it for potential long term prosperity and think we'll be better off outside the EU then I have the utmost respect for you and completely respect the decision and vote you made. Unfortunately from every Leave supporter I've spoken to so far, precious few fall in to that last category.

[Genie]

"we got out country back" seems to be the only response the leave voters have to offer, assuming that was correct at what price?

[This Could Be Rotterdam]

Just now, Genie said:

"we got out country back" seems to be the only response the leave voters have to offer, assuming that was correct at what price?

Have you considered that you (and the media) are simply speaking to the wrong (or very selectively chosen) leave voters? Dare I suggest that 17 million+ people didn't all vote for the that reason alone?

[Genie]

1 minute ago, This Could Be Rotterdam said:

Have you considered that you (and the media) are simply speaking to the wrong (or very selectively chosen) leave voters? Dare I suggest that 17 million+ people didn't all vote for the that reason alone?

I dint think it's possible for everybody to be speaking to the wrong people.

[This Could Be Rotterdam]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

I dint think it's possible for everybody to be speaking to the wrong people.

So you do think 17 million+ people voted for that one reason? 

[Genie]

2 minutes ago, This Could Be Rotterdam said:

So you do think 17 million+ people voted for that one reason? 

I think a very large proportion of the leave voters didn't really understand what they were voting for and what the EU actually is.

The fault lies with those incharge of the remain campaign. 

Rather than focus on what might happen when out (which is incredibly difficult to predict)  they should have put more emphasis on what we actually have being in (economic stability, freedom of movement etc). 

[jackbauer24]

If only 10% of the Leave voters have voted because of misconceptions over immigration, making a protest vote or believing promises that have already broken then a re-run would see a Remain win. However I'd guestimate it's closer to 70%+ who voted Leave based on one of those criteria and now everyone will pay for it.

[chrisp65]

Just now, This Could Be Rotterdam said:

Have you considered that you (and the media) are simply speaking to the wrong (or very selectively chosen) leave voters? Dare I suggest that 17 million+ people didn't all vote for the that reason alone?

There must be an awful lot of different reasons and yes, the media will select people that look like they could give an interesting answer.

But personally, as someone that works and commutes South Wales, Kent, London, Swindon and Redditch, the only reasons I've heard first hand have all without exception been versions of getting the country back.

I've heard people say there are too many immigrants, no jobs for 'us', flats given to refugees, too many Syrians, one person said they **** hated the Germans, one was protesting against Indians having taken over the local post office, one just liked Boris Johnson. One person in Kent, sat at a table of construction workers simply chanted 'England, England'. I'll admit I've taken that as he voted leave although he didn't actually say that.

These will not be the only reasons. But across a great swathe of the UK, I haven't personally heard anyone mention agricultural policy or TTIP or the environment or deep concerns about accountable democratic processes etc.. Just variations on too many, little island, full, dislike of foreign types.

Who knows how many remainers voted for dumb reasons and false threats?

But whatever, it's done and to try and undo it would be quite wrong, it's time to just get on with it now.

Anyone seen the government?

[snowychap]

10 minutes ago, This Could Be Rotterdam said:

So you do think 17 million+ people voted for that one reason? 

I think the 17+ million people [who voted leave] voted for a wide variety of reasons and that's probably going to mean that there are a significant number of those people who end up either very dissappointed or, worse still, angry and betrayed.

[Genie]

1 minute ago, jackbauer24 said:

If only 10% of the Leave voters have voted because of misconceptions over immigration, making a protest vote or believing promises that have already broken then a re-run would see a Remain win. However I'd guestimate it's closer to 70%+ who voted Leave based on one of those criteria and now everyone will pay for it.

I agree, only the other day one of the vote leave enforcers on Facebook was asking if England play in the next Euros if we vote leave. Now he's delighted "we've got our country back". He's thick as shit (blues fan) and delighted with the result, I guarantee he has no idea of what it's done.

[snowychap]

2 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Anyone seen the government?

If you turn on BBC Parliament tomorrow sometime I think you get to see our lame duck PM.

You may even see Osborne sat behind him somewhere. I doubt he'll be wearing his usual gormless smirk.

[This Could Be Rotterdam]

4 minutes ago, Genie said:

I think a very large proportion of the leave voters didn't really understand what they were voting for and what the EU actually is.

The fault lies with those incharge of the remain campaign. 

Rather than focus on what might happen when out (which is incredibly difficult to predict)  they should have put more emphasis on what we actually have being in (economic stability, freedom of movement etc). 

I think it's quite insulting to suggest that a large proportion (are you suggesting 12,13,14 million?) didn't understand what they were voting for. I think a large majority of people who voted leave put a decent amount of thought and research into their decision. I would argue more than those who voted remain in many cases as it certainly took more thought to decide upon a change than to vote for the status quo.

My main gripe with the remain campaign is much like yours, I strongly disagreed with obvious threat to the nation regarding the emergency budget. But what has riled me since is the insinuation that any leave voter is 'stupid', 'Moronic', destroying the futures of generations to come. Quite obviously it remains to be unseen, but some of the comments on this forum are shameful.

i would also suggest that a lot of leave voters who had valid and considered reasons for voting are much like myself, letting the uproar subside until everyone calms down a bit and can have a reasonable conversation. 

[Genie]

2 minutes ago, This Could Be Rotterdam said:

I think it's quite insulting to suggest that a large proportion (are you suggesting 12,13,14 million?) didn't understand what they were voting for. I think a large majority of people who voted leave put a decent amount of thought and research into their decision. I would argue more than those who voted remain in many cases as it certainly took more thought to decide upon a change than to vote for the status quo.

My main gripe with the remain campaign is much like yours, I strongly disagreed with obvious threat to the nation regarding the emergency budget. But what has riled me since is the insinuation that any leave voter is 'stupid', 'Moronic', destroying the futures of generations to come. Quite obviously it remains to be unseen, but some of the comments on this forum are shameful.

i would also suggest that a lot of leave voters who had valid and considered reasons for voting are much like myself, letting the uproar subside until everyone calms down a bit and can have a reasonable conversation. 

Why did you vote leave?

[This Could Be Rotterdam]

10 minutes ago, jackbauer24 said:

If only 10% of the Leave voters have voted because of misconceptions over immigration, making a protest vote or believing promises that have already broken then a re-run would see a Remain win. However I'd guestimate it's closer to 70%+ who voted Leave based on one of those criteria and now everyone will pay for it.

We'll have to agree to disagree on 70%. I think that's a major overestimation. I'm not sure promises can be broken when we haven't even issued the article 50 yet. But talking of broken promises, where is the emergency budget? 

[snowychap]

2 minutes ago, This Could Be Rotterdam said:

But talking of broken promises, where is the emergency budget? 

Osborne hasn't stopped banging his head against the wall yet.

[Awol]

2 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Osborne hasn't stopped banging his head against the wall yet.

I've been wondering if he's even in the country, but wherever he is I fully expect he's preparing the Brexit strategy he claimed didn't exist just before the vote.

Assuming that he wasn't telling yet another lie, it is hard to imagine a greater abrogation of responsibility. 

[AshVilla]

9 minutes ago, Genie said:

Why did you vote leave?

That's like asking why are you a racist/xenophobe/idiot on here at the minute

I wouldn't blame him if he didn't answer

[Davkaus]

Tim Farron

Quote

 

We are the only party committed to a future for Britain at the heart of Europe.

Naturally we respect the result of the referendum, but Brexit will hit livelihoods, homes and jobs. As the Brexit camp renounce their promises on the NHS and immigration before the slogans have even been peeled off their battle bus, it is now clear that the British people were told lie after lie.

 

 

It's early days, but I'll be keeping an eye on their manifesto when the next GE is announced.

[snowychap]

4 minutes ago, Awol said:

I fully expect he's preparing the Brexit strategy

After this referendum, I think it would be folly to put the words Osborne and strategy in the same sentence unless they also went with couldn't come up with a and to get out of a paper bag.

Edited June 26, 2016 by snowychap