magnkarl Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Queue up, queue up. Today's choice of holiday destinations are a) Theresa May's disaster zone, full of u turns and robotic dance moves, or b) Jeremy Corbyn's "it's about time we called an election"-land where elections are never held because he couldn't oppose a turtle travelling up a slippery slope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 11, 2018 No deal is the ultimate disaster of this whole farce. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 21 minutes ago, bickster said: Yes, let's appoint a leader we don't agree with just for the sake of it. The vast majority of MPs are not Hard Right. It is them that get the say until the final two If the wider Party elect a hard right leader then that is the point where the Tory Party splits haven't they already got on in May ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2018 42 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: haven't they already got on in May ? Nope, she's moved to the right to placate the ERG, thats not her natural position nor is it the politics she was voted in on. If anything May's a self-preservation chameleon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 She was a pretty right wing HS IIRC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post snowychap Posted December 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2018 19 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: She was a pretty right wing HS IIRC She has no apparent ideology, she just does and says what she thinks she needs to to get somewhere or now stay at the top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 (edited) Interesting that Yvette Cooper's urgent question was not answered by the AG but by Robin Walker (junior DExEU Minister). He has not put the legal position but the intention of the Government to have a vote by the 21st Jan. This is all set up for it not to happen. Edited December 11, 2018 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, snowychap said: Interesting that Yvette Cooper's urgent question was not answered by the AG but by Robin Walker (junior DExEU Minister). He has not put the legal position but the intention of the Government to have a vote by the 21st Jan. This is all set up for it not to happen. Apparently she was told by both factions that don't support her in the Tory Party yesterday that it needed to be done by xmas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 38 minutes ago, bickster said: She has no apparent ideology, she just does and says what she thinks she needs to to get somewhere or now stay at the top She's arrogant, astonishingly deceitful and deeply authoritarian. In terms of ideology it seems to be based solely on people obeying her - like all good wannabe dictators. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 11, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, Awol said: She's arrogant, astonishingly deceitful and deeply authoritarian. In terms of ideology it seems to be based solely on people obeying her - like all good wannabe dictators. She definitely has the authoritarian streak in her but if she has an ideology at all it's about her and not about policy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 3 hours ago, bickster said: Yes, let's appoint a leader we don't agree with just for the sake of it. The vast majority of MPs are not Hard Right. It is them that get the say until the final two If the wider Party elect a hard right leader then that is the point where the Tory Party splits Why - they have had right wing leaders before ? - Right wing sentiment is on the rise - not just in the UK - but Europe as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Just now, hippo said: Why - they have had right wing leaders before ? - Right wing sentiment is on the rise - not just in the UK - but Europe as a whole. Not convinced it's right wing-ism as such that's on the rise; but populism. Easy solutions to difficult problems. It'll swing back and Centrism will continue for another x years or so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted December 11, 2018 Author Moderator Popular Post Share Posted December 11, 2018 2 hours ago, tonyh29 said: I wonder if it would be a bigger disaster than this deal , which is probably the important question mos' def it would be a bigger disaster than this "deal". It's the whole nub of it really. What we get now is we pay less than 1% of the national budget into the EU. For that we get the whole trade gubbins - al the trade with the other EU nations, the trade with the RotW (much of) which the EU has negotiated deals for, we get the medicine, aviation, free movement of people and capital, we get the financial sector selling big into yurp, we get the mobile phone roaming, the nuclear the environmental...the workers rights...loads of stuff. No deal we get...nothing. Nothing at all, save for not paying the less than 1% of our national budget. We lose our ease of travel, our medicine (X-ray materials etc.) we've already lost Galileo, some EU bodies have moved out of London, the NHS is much more desperately short of nurses and doctors, Russia, the US, Aus NZ etc, have already objected formally to proposed WTO membership for the UK (on a continued split of the share we have with the EU). It's an absolute clusterpork if we have "no deal". No sane observer thinks or believes any different. Look at the detail. It might keep the Blue passport and no brown people mob happy until they end up being on the receiving end of the shitty stick, but for civilisation, just no... I don't like a lot of the EU and the way it works, but practicalities are what they are. May's deal is worse than what we have now. Hard brexit is worse, much worse, than May's deal. Remaining in is scuffy, a bit humiliating and not massively palatable, but it's easily the leat bad option. This last 2 years has exposed the utter incompetence and inadequacy of the Tories and Labour, the huge gaping flaws in our system, but also how unpleasant the EU rulership also is. No one wins out of any of it, but no deal and hard Brexit is for Johnson's vanity, the bank balances of some tory toffs, the temporary delight of some utter shitclowns like IDS and Redwood and it's a menace for everyone else. 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 11, 2018 Author Moderator Share Posted December 11, 2018 31 minutes ago, bickster said: if she has an ideology at all it's about her and not about policy Possibly, but her whole time as HS and her deepest of red lines has been about "them coming' over 'ere" - she's an ideological small minded, home counties type of little Englander, obsessed with immigrants and immigration. SHe's also way beyond her level of capability, like Corbyn is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 3 hours ago, tonyh29 said: I wonder if it would be a bigger disaster than this deal , which is probably the important question I think the EU (and various other people ) are hoping we can be "cornered " into withdrawing article 50 ... No Deal might be the outcome of this play ... lot will now depend on who replaces May in the coming days ... a Tory Remainer or a Tory Brexiter What is your timeframe here for 'the coming days'? Because she isn't going anywhere for a while yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 Her ideology is clearly 'hating and fearing foreigners'. It's the through-line of her whole political career. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted December 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 11, 2018 She's power mad. She is a wannabe dictator, her career is riddled with hoarding power, she controls everything she can meaning she attempts to micromanage everything and keeps as many people as possible in the dark as to details or actions. Her time as home secretary is just a laundry list of bad power hungry decisions. Which is why she's a dreadful prime minister who lurches from one disaster to the next - she hides and obscures things until they balloon from her control and then she does her damage limitation act to get through the next day. Which happens again and again. The 'delayed' vote thing yesterday? That was coming from a mile off. She even told EU figures it was likely to be cancelled before UK ministers. But left it to the last possible minute to announce because at that point her hand was forced and she had to accept she couldn't get it under her control. Then she acts in whatever way she can, even if that is itself damaging or only postpones the inevitable, to last another day. It's why the Brexit Secretary role is a farce. It's a glorified spokesman role as she and her closest advisors just did the job themselves she didn't trust anyone else to do it. Raab's job was literally to sell her movements (pun intended) to the home audience, and nothing else. Oh, and she hates foreigners. Really hates foreigners. She's a particularly despicable Tory who is fortunate to have found herself in one of the only times a government can get away with being a barely functioning circus. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 56 minutes ago, blandy said: mos' def it would be a bigger disaster than this "deal". It's the whole nub of it really. What we get now is we pay less than 1% of the national budget into the EU. For that we get the whole trade gubbins - al the trade with the other EU nations, the trade with the RotW (much of) which the EU has negotiated deals for, we get the medicine, aviation, free movement of people and capital, we get the financial sector selling big into yurp, we get the mobile phone roaming, the nuclear the environmental...the workers rights...loads of stuff. No deal we get...nothing. Nothing at all, save for not paying the less than 1% of our national budget. We lose our ease of travel, our medicine (X-ray materials etc.) we've already lost Galileo, some EU bodies have moved out of London, the NHS is much more desperately short of nurses and doctors, Russia, the US, Aus NZ etc, have already objected formally to proposed WTO membership for the UK (on a continued split of the share we have with the EU). It's an absolute clusterpork if we have "no deal". No sane observer thinks or believes any different. Look at the detail. It might keep the Blue passport and no brown people mob happy until they end up being on the receiving end of the shitty stick, but for civilisation, just no... I don't like a lot of the EU and the way it works, but practicalities are what they are. May's deal is worse than what we have now. Hard brexit is worse, much worse, than May's deal. Remaining in is scuffy, a bit humiliating and not massively palatable, but it's easily the leat bad option. This last 2 years has exposed the utter incompetence and inadequacy of the Tories and Labour, the huge gaping flaws in our system, but also how unpleasant the EU rulership also is. No one wins out of any of it, but no deal and hard Brexit is for Johnson's vanity, the bank balances of some tory toffs, the temporary delight of some utter shitclowns like IDS and Redwood and it's a menace for everyone else. you usually do so well with your reasoning , but when you trot out Brown people and Blue passports , you make baby Jesus cry not to mention you forgot the obligatory Gammon Face , so you make half of VT cry as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted December 11, 2018 Share Posted December 11, 2018 33 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: What is your timeframe here for 'the coming days'? Because she isn't going anywhere for a while yet. good question .. i didn't think she would survive the GE fiasco and yet here she still is probably she lasts until the vote is held , which might be as late as 21st Jan now ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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